Alex Tremulis' Chrysler Thunderbolt: upcoming auction

[Tatra Man]

John,

I have to agree with Streamliner on the Harris Special. Could Tremulis have been inspired by the Harris? Perhaps. However, it is plainly obvious that Harris was highly inspired by the Bluebirds' styling of years earlier, as the overall feel of the Harris Special is a near perfect match to the Bluebirds. With the Bluebirds being known world-wide, it would be obvious to conclude that many designers (including Tremulis and Harris) would have been inspired by them. That's not to say that the Harris Special does not have many interesting and inspirational features, but the overall look of the Harris does mimic the Bluebirds.

[john]

Tatra Man,
Do agree to a certain extent.
I believe that every designer copied from one another all through automobile history.

Bens creation does carry some of the Bluebirds styling, quite a few differences when weighed all together, thats "design and usage combined" for a street car that traveled 10,000 miles on the open road at speeds up to 110mph wrapping out 6,000 rpm's, 30 mpg of gas, unheard of in any street car for even years afterward, thats is unless we missed something in our research.
The Bluebird, if someone pasted a pic here for comparison, we feel, it is not as clean as Bens design, just as every designer does, Ben used his own pen to creat/render new dimension in streamline design and furthered it by a street sports car.

Would be interesting to put the Harris Speciale into a wind tunnel, could it be that its drag resistence might be the all time best of all others built before and after, to a certain date of course?

Ben combined many unique things when he built the Harris Speciale.
When viewing a street car, which is what Bens Creation was and is, we feel he went where no others had went before, size of vehicle, similar to modern day size cars, steamlined/aero modern day look still in certain forms, V-8 engine that was twin cam, twin distr, twin carb> still in certain form today, weight of vehicle>not behemouth,innovations of varying types, Seat belts, independant rear susp, simplified FWD, pop open hood>gas caps & headlights>again in certain form today, the list goes on and on,

We are the caretakers of Bens creation, 22 years now, feel totally obligated to find its place in Automobile History with help, facts and opinions from all for a final draft.

We are always searching for more, we are not hard headed and will correct ourselves when shown wrong, we love the comments you guys write, we do use them to bring us to further conclusion of a final story and draft for the car, thank you guys, seriously, your all soooooo cool !!!

One of Tremulis's designs/renderings, contained herein, thanks to streamliner, almost looks like Tremulis directly pasted Bens body onto a more full size car in his own rendering.

Let's examine this if you would please;
is there another street driven car, (before Bens) that incorporated so many drastic design changes, weight, size etcetera, and that also incorporated so many different innovations into one car that you know of?

Many claim the 38 Buick Y-job was the first futuristic car, we disagree until proven and shown as wrong in claiming Bens creation as the first, let alone the first "sports car" as one writer proclaimed it as in a national magazine article in 1936.
"""Please, do let us know your opinions, we do truly value them.""""
the caretakers of Bens dream,
John

[john]

Just as with Alex Tremulis's passing years back, we have lost another great designer.
May it be that both of them share space and enjoy each others stories and tales.
Both designed great creations in many forms and had true passion for their ever living work.

MILAN, ITALY (September 15, 2009) - Dr. Elio Zagato passed away yesterday at the age of 88.

Son of Ugo Zagato, founder of the famous Milanese Atelier, renowned in the whole world since 1919 for its custom made car bodies- Elio was a figure of great importance in the history of global automotive design and in the Gran Turismo race scene of the post-war era.

Entrepreneur, racer and gentleman driver, he competed for the first time in Piacenza in 1947, driving a Fiat which had just been re-bodied as a graduation gift from his father.

From that point onwards he never stopped developing his beloved Gran Turismos, working on them during the week and then testing them during the weekends. He was amongst the founders of the Milanese Scuderia Sant Ambroeus. He embodied with perfection the style, elegance, and competitive spirit of the Italian gentleman driver of the ‘Dolce Vita’ era.

In the early 1950s he started developing the world’s most desired berlinette GTs. Amongst all of them we fondly remember the Fiat 8V Zagato, which he claimed to be his favourite, the Alfa Romeo 1900 SSZ which was often his rival in various races, the legendary Ferrari 250 GTZs, Maserati A6G, Aston Martin DB4 GTZ and many more. He took part in the golden age of competitions raced with vests and helmets with famous characters such as Ascari, Fangio, Galluzzi, Nuvolari, Stagnoli, and others. Enzo Ferrari called him “Zagatino.”

Together with his friend Ercole Spada he developed the legendary Alfa Romeo SZ, TZ and TZ2s followed by the elegant Lancia Sports based on Appia, Flavia, Flaminia, and Fulvia chassis. A constant innovator, together with his father Ugo he invented the celebrated double bubble, signature mark of the Milanese brand, the ‘Coda Tronca’, windows made out of plexiglas and countless other solutions still used on modern vehicles today.

Elio participated in 150 automotive races, winning 82 of them and becoming champion of the GT series a remarkable 5 times. He was victorious in the Targa Florio, eight Coppa Intereuropas, won three first places in the Golden Cup of the Dolomites, and came in first at the Avus circuit in Berlin in 1955.

Promoter of the Milanese concept of minimalism oriented towards functionalist design, Elio defined his Zagatos first and foremost as ‘original.’ Whoever asked him to synthesize the design spirit of his car bodies, he would reply to them “You see that car? Is it different from all the others? Then it’s a Zagato.”

Andrea and Marella Zagato, today, in the year of Zagato’s 90th anniversary, keep the spirit of the Atelier coachwork alive, a trade that Elio learned from Ugo and promoted throughout his brilliant career.

[streamliner]

If you missed the first bidding opportunity a couple years ago, you've got another chance at RM Auction's January event, Automobiles of Arizona, January 21 and 22.



Great photos on their website. I wouldn't think this one will bring any less than the last one...

[streamliner]

RM Auctions results: Lot 281 - 1941 Chrysler Thunderbolt Concept - Did not sell at high bid of $1,175,000

[john]

Steamliner and Tatra Man,

Sorry for taking soooooo long to post here.
One son just graduated college, another in college, a old 1890's home renovation, Harris story and on and on.

The Harris story is finally coming together with the assistance of many at AutoPuzzles.
These guys uncover everything from the 1800's on up to modern day.
Their library and vast amount of knowledge is unsurpassed.

The ongoing story is in a writers area that might be locked though, let me know if you can not access, as all would enjoy your thoughts and theories in several topics
I do believe that both of you guys are members?
There should be about 20 chapters in all, most are just starting at this time.

Everything from the Bluebird's prior to 1935, Buehrig, streamliners, aero and tear drop cars etc is being written in, yes, Tatra's also Tatra Man>> ha>>>
Streamliner, congrads to you again on your frame posting for historical preservation.
John

[Tucker Fan 48]

So in another Kevin Bacon sort of twist, Weren't this Thunderbolt and Tucker #1003 both owned at one time
by Paul H. Stern of Manheim PA.?

[streamliner]

With only 5 cars built, it should be a lot easier to compile a Chrysler Thunderbolt Registry, all of them documented retractable hardtops from the factory. It looks like most of the Thunderbolts as well as the Newports were owned by Paul Stern by the mid-1970's, including the red Newport first owned by Lana Turner. Harrah's bought that one from Stern.



This particular Thunderbolt is the only fully restored car with what is believed to be the original authentic color combination and original anodized metal wraparound trim. It is recorded as being the fourth Thunderbolt built and retains numerous irreplaceable parts and original components. In 1942, it was sold by Joe Levy, President of Walton Motors Inc., a Chrysler dealership in Chicago, to the Vice-President of Mexico, where it remained for over 20 years. In the early 1960s the Thunderbolt was sold to Paul Stern, with whom itremained for an equally long term before being sold to 'Friendly' Bob Adams. In 1980, Joe Levy Jr., son of the very first owner, purchased the car. Over the next ten years the Thunderbolt passed through several owners, finding its way into its penultimate collection in 1997. By this time, the Chrysler had been fully restored and was prepared for national concours competition.

Auction Date: 18 Jan 2008
# Bids: 9
Sold For: $1,200,000
Engine: 8
Transmission: auto
Exterior Color: red
Interior Color: tan

[TuckerCar]

KB Twist 1: I grew up just about 3 blocks from Walton Chrysler in Skokie, IL. I think it finally closed just last year.

KB Twist 2: Richard Driehaus of Chicago currently owns a black on maroon Thunderbolt and Tucker 1008. TACA toured his private collection in Chicago last September at the Mini-Meet.

KB Twist 3: Driehaus also owns a 1949 Kurtis that he bought after Fred Hunter passed away. Fred owned and restored Tucker 1017 before Keith and Eileen Carpenter.

http://www.chicagovintage.com/images/ca ... %20062.jpg

http://www.chicagovintage.com/gallery/

[Tucker Fan 48]

You probably didn’t know this but there were actually seven Thunderbolts. Most people don’t know about # 7 because the entire Thunderbolt program was meant to be top secret. As WWII was heating up in Europe, FDR began gearing up production in the US to help supply the allies. K.T. Keller was then President of Chrysler. In August of 1940, Chrysler was awarded a 20 million dollar contract to build tanks and also began their involvement in developing their first experimental Hemi for use in the P-47 Thunderbolt fighter aircraft.

It was during the signing of this contract that FDR asked K.T. Keller to join him for a private meeting in a room just off the oval office. (Bill Clinton would use this room for another type of private meeting in later years). It was in that meeting that FDR asked Keller to begin development of a secret mobile submarine. This submarine would have four wheels and could be driven like a car however in a time of war, these cars could be driven off a pier into the water where they would turn into mini submarines.

FDR felt that these mini submarines could be hidden in plain sight and could be built in any automobile plant. The thought was that the crew could drive off the pier, find its target, and launch torpedoes at an enemy target. The crew would then simply go back to shore where they would come out of the water and drive back to their base. This would save on building expensive naval bases near the water which surely would be targets for the enemy. The government also thought that they could base crews at any local gas station where the vehicle could be put on a hoist and be fueled and rearmed at the same time. When not in use as a submarine the vehicle could be used to transport military personnel around the base. This would be a substantial cost savings for the military as well as reduce the need for steel.

Since Chrysler was already involved in the fighter project it was decided to name the secret project Thunderbolt. That way any spies would be thrown off thinking it was related to the fighter program. They also had hoped that the submarine would be able to equal the land speed record of 357.7 mph set in 1938 by George Eyston who drove a car also known as the Thunderbolt. Keller knew that in order to pull this off he would need to bring in someone capable of pulling off a secret project and leaving no paper trail. With that in mind he brought in Robert McClelland to run the project. This would be McClelland’s first top secret project for an automaker but not his last.

In early 1941 the first six prototypes were developed for land use only. These are the cars we know of today. The seventh prototype was developed for water use. You can see in the photos of the land vehicles that this clearly was not a vehicle that was designed to be driven on the road yet Chrysler was able to sell the idea to the public. The torpedo tube openings in the front were disguised as headlamp openings. The retractable turret made the vehicle look like it was a simple convertible.

Once in the water, it was quickly found that driving a submarine at 310 knots (357 mph) would give the crew some tactical problems. On the first test run, the crew drove off of Pier 39 in San Francisco and was to travel to San Diego. It was to be a trip of just over an hour, however, at about 50 minutes into the trip and traveling at that speed the crew nearly impaled themselves into San Miguel Island. It was also discovered that at 310 knots the submarine would be traveling much faster than any torpedo it would be launching. That means the submarine would run into the back of anything it launched. After that, project engineers decided that a much slower speed would allow the crew to navigate more safely. A second test proved to be a disaster for the program. The project was having huge cost overruns so in order to save the money of taking the prototype all the way to an ocean, it was taken south of Detroit where it was driven off a Pier into Lake Erie. The engineers had failed to check out the site ahead of the test and when the prototype was launched it quickly stuck itself into the deep mud. The crew was rescued but the program came to an end. With huge cost overruns and the war heating up, Chrysler President K.T. Keller bought in a young account to cover up the scandal. His name was Mel Koeppen and he was able to bury the entire cost of the Thunderbolt program into a new aircraft plant that the government was building in Chicago on Cicero Avenue. With that the Thunderbolt program was ended.

Nothing has been heard about the seventh Thunderbolt until just recently when it was discovered entirely preserved in the Lake Erie mud. It has been removed from the water and has been taken to a restoration shop in Wisconsin where it will soon be restored and placed for sale on E-Bay at a price of five million dollars.

[TuckerCar]

Priceless.

[Tucker Fan 48]

I was reading a 1958 copy of Motor Trend magazine and noticed this right across the page from an ad for a Tucker.