Tucker Frames

[TUCKER]

Hi, do anyone know what ever hapend to the frame of blue 1027 Tucker? The frame was still good when removed as I know of. It did not have much damage but had rusted floot panels as I know. If it was removed it had to be for using under a Tucker body but under which car? I have not been able to truck in down in my notes.

[john]

Tucker Authorities,

WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER THE MAN???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????.

[Larry Clark]

There have been a couple of recent call outs for the "Tucker authorities" to jump in to try to sort out bodies, frames, etc. I have "Tucker Authority" associated with my name on the TACA page but I never asked for (or wanted) such designation. Because I cannot provide conclusive evidence concerning 1027 or 1057 I have stayed out of the discussions and just enjoyed reading (and learning) from what others have posted. Since possibly called out, I will share what I know.

The bankruptcy records are not clear as to just what Ezra Schlipf bought at the auction (I first reviewed the actual bankruptcy court bidder records back in the 1970's before the records got all messed up in the Federal Archives in Chicago). Some years ago I tracked down Ezra's daughter. She said her brother has definite recollections of his father bringing home a number of cars and lots of parts from the auction. The bankruptcy records do not support this recollection but I have found other things of the era, including a letter from the era by Ezra, that makes it pretty clear that he had such stuff, whether the actual bidder of record or not. Unfortunately, I know of no inventory that says for sure what he had in the extra parts or car bodies above 1050 or 1051. I think it is pretty safe to say that either he or a nearby friend, Dewey Bloomquist, first had them.

As to cars Ezra owned, again, I could get no definitive list from his daughter or otherwise. However, I believe at one time or another he owned 1002, 1012, 1026, 1027,1048, probably 1050 and probably 1051. His daughter, after talking with her brother, denies that he owned 1016. However, there is evidence that the Detroit Free Press bought it from Ezra in preparation of defending themselves with the defamation suit brought by Preston Tucker (if not from Ezra, they bought 1016 from someone else for this purpose). After the case was dismissed, the car was donated to the Henry Ford Museum where it has been ever since. Why would Ezra not want to own up to such a sale- obviously the car was used against Preston Tucker and Ezra was a huge supporter of both Mr. Tucker and the car (it is possible he did not know where the car was actually going if he did own/sell it).

Schlipf installed 1027door panels and headliner in 1951 in 1002 before he sold the car to Russ Brownell (who subsequently sold it to Bill Hamlin). Other pieces of 1027 got sold or installed in other cars. The frame and remaining parts were sold to someone- not sure whom. I did not come across 1027 again until Dick Kughn showed up with it. I have never learned from whom Mr. Kughn purchased the remaining pieces of 1027.

As to 1057, before all of these posts, I had assumed Dewey Bloomquist had originally bought the body. Now I am not so sure. I now think it is possible that 1057 was not included in the set of extra bodies sold in a bundle. Given the fact that Bloomquist and Ezra were friends and lived relatively close to each other, all sorts of parts could have been traded between them.

This is all I can add. I am unaware of any direct evidence that can resolve the 1027 or 1057 legacy issues. This said, the many posts concerning 1027 and 1057, especially those including the Life and annotated pictures, have brought many new thoughts, perspectives and evidence to the discussion that by deduction are helping us to know more. I have found these posts highly informative (and interesting). There are a lot of smart people that have posted that are worthy of Tucker authority designation.

Larry

[john]

Larry,
It seems to me that plancor posted that the club had a letter in the files describing certain Tucker serial numbers that were at Erza's.
Is this true or did I misread his quite explicit post?
John

[Larry Clark]

John: I cannot answer your question. Richard Jones (Plancor) would have to respond. Richard is the ultimate guru, and at it for far more years than me, so he may well have this. I have primarily relied upon four sources:

1. A copy of a sales sheet that Ezra sent out on June 4, 1951. He offered Tucker engines ($550), #27 with no transmission but a new motor for $1,500, body and frames (Tucker?) for $300 each, frames only for $50, etc.
2. Letter by Russ Brownell in the Tucker Topics for June, 1998 where Russ says that when he bought 1002 in 1951 that Ezra had in his garage 1016, 1048, 1032 and 1027. Although Russ lists 1016, as this is what Ezra told him it was, he speculated that it might have been something else since it was dark metallic maroon. Russ, a very knowledgeable Tucker person (who was on-site during the movie to keep the cars going, along with Richard Jones) says the 1032 then had a Tuckermatic in it and he drove it (says 1032 was changed back to a Cord transmission before being acquired by the Harrah Collection). 1032 did not originally have a Tuckermatic in it. There are those who contend 1032 never had one in it (I have a hard time betting against Russ Brownell's recollection). Perhaps this is the Tuckermatic that Dave Cammack has today since Nick Jenin bought a car and things from Ezra (and Dave bought the last of Nick's collection and car).
3. Tucker Topics, February 1998- The Curator of the Henry Ford Museum is quoted as saying the Detroit News (I inadvertently previously said Free Press) bought 1016 from Ezra in 1951.
4. Notes from interviews with Eza's widow in 1990 and his daughter then and twice subsequently. From pictures I was shown and the little that they could add of substance, I speculate he owned both 1050 and 1051 (and possibly at some point the subsequent number bodies). His widow spoke of the Dewey Bloomquist connection.

Larry

[john]

Larry,
I am sure that Tucker will be pleased that someone has replied, thanks from Tucker and myself.

I will browse through my notes and maybe some of the posts herein to find what Richard wrote.
It seems that parts of 57 were noted in his post, real positive, but I could be wrong as we collected so much information on 57, 27 and others to get to the bottom line.

Tucker, if you need anything, you know how to get in touch, keep up your good work !!!!

John

[plancor 792]

Sorry to say I have not kept track of Tucker 1027. Thinking it was parted out I did not keep track of the pieces. Will do a search to see if I can find my notes on what Ezra and possibly Dewey Bloomquist had. I did correspond with Ezra Schlipf for a very short time but was never able to get a response from Dewey Bloomquist. I also had lengthy correspondense with Nick Jenin and Nick really didn't know exactly which Tucker's he had. What makes this more confusing is that he told me that he had re-upholstered and repainted all of his Tucker's and data plates had been removed and some were probably not put back on the original vehicle. Also had a few lengthy telephone conversations with Nick. He invited me down for a visit and when I went, the family, (his wife) refused to let me see him. At that time "the family" was very unhappy that Nick was spending all of his time with the Tucker's. I understand today the "family" now speaks differently about the situation.
I have been able to put together the following which I feel is correct.
Nick Jenin at one time owned the following Tucker automobiles.
1003 - Engine Number 4 ?
1005 - Engine Number 5
1007 - Engine Number 33575
1012 - Engine Number 33511
1014 - Engine Number 33523
1022 - Engine Number 33561
1025 - Engine Number 33546
1026 - Engine Number 33565
1037 - Engine number 33547
1045 - Engine number 33551
1046 - Engine Number 33553
1049 - Engine Number 33512

Richard

[plancor 792]

My mistake. Tucker Serial Number 1022 was not one of the vehicles owned by Nick Jenin. .

Richard

[Tucker Fan 48]

Nick must have really liked Tuckers as he owned over 20% of all the cars ever built.
Is there anyone else that owned as many? I've heard names of several people that
worked on a lot of them but is there someone that actually owned more, other than
the Tucker Corporation of course?

[TUCKER]

Shure not much of 27 on that car called 27. Also now something else got me thinking today. Another missing frame??? Where is the frame to this car? Also in a photo there were 7 people on this roofless car. Could the frame later been swaped on the 27 convertible to this frame? It shure looked strong to me like reinforced and that would make it an original Tucker frame but not original Convertible. Or could it be part 1027 and part test chassis #2?.

[john]

Perhaps a new easter egg may show up.
Many overlook the obvious sometimes.
A Historian works hard to gather little details, perhaps more will be brought forth soon.
Can the obvious happen again, it may leave you in awe ????
Is a reinforced chassis contained herein ???
Ummmm,
Somebody knows we are smiling at their find and hard work, we figured they would unearth another one of the egg's !!!!!!
Truly too bad that the posts and finishing touches were stopped.
John

[TUCKER]

Hi John, glad to hear from you again. Looks like we got a new easter egg sent by Al Reinart himself showing his test car without a frame.

[streamliner]

OK, now that everyone's back, here are some questions:

1) Can you guys trace the ownership of "Test Chassis #2", from the 1950 auction to today?

2) Does anyone have any more closeup photos from the past 60 years of the frame for "Test Chassis #2" or know specifically what was done to it to make it an experimental test chassis?

3) Can anyone show some proof that "Test Chassis #2" and frame #1052 either are or are not one and the same?

4) Where is that frame (#52?) originally from the Kughn collection, last seen in Roscoe, IL?

5) Currently where is the original frame to #1046?

Thanks...

[TUCKER]

The test chassis has always been with Al Reinart. He bought it at the October 30 1950 auction. His name is as Al's Auto Parts at that day he bought it. I have copies of the inventory list of what each car sold to on that day.

[john]

Streamliner,
Their were cars and parts in Roscoe Illinois.
If you recall in past posts, number 57 was supposedly identified as being there from a club member.
Whether it was a cowl or whatever parts, that is the story.

The story also continues as a bldg was said to be leveled that was falling in>>> as told, the parts and other remnant bodies were also dozed under ground.

You had previously, in a post, asked about what happened to the 4 dr 1949 prototype Tucker.
Our conclusions in tracing back is that it was cut up so the new ( body ) style would not be sold at auction.
Did some parts to it end up in Roscoe?

The story, in piece meals, is to dam hard to describe and write Steamliner.
It needs to be told from start ( 1949 ) to finish in 2009.
Thats is why we were upset when it all stopped.

Perhaps chronological order, together with names of past owners might be best served by all for the Tucker Club owners and members, ( a History Book ), just as with the Ferrari's, Shelby's, AC Cobras, Jaguars, Rolls Royce, Hemi cars and a host of other prominent investment cars have been compiled and sold worldwide.
Their History books are invaluable and do sell for a pretty penny also>>>>>>>>>>
Only then can your other questions be answered.
Again, it's just to dam hard, without the above mentioned, to fully understand, trace and write where everything has ended up.

We jumped back in because of ( Tucker ), he is a quality guy that tries his best to uncover true History, doing a dam good job we might add.
There is most definetly more.
Maybe all histories should not be told ????????
It is up to the Club authorities, as they have their rights as owners of the Club.

By the way, thanks Streamliner for your post on the Harris car.
We will be back with you to discuss further information regarding your last posts. We are working with a group of Historians and writers at this time to solidify it's grand importance in automobile History, even re-writing some history in the process.

John