Tucker "Convertible" at Auction

[Tucker Fan 48]

Looks like there is a big difference between the way Barrett-Jackson does business and Russo & Steele
which is most likely why the car landed at this auction. Of course we'll never know how many auction
houses turned this car down before Russo & Steele took it. It seems their expect, Al Prueitt, was enough
for them to declare the car "authentic".

[Tuckerfan1053]

Of course, Benchmark stands by their expert: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2010 ... 61786.html

Again, Mr. Follis represents the Gilmore Museum very well but Mr. Prueitt has been in the restoration business longer than Jay has been alive. That is why Benchmark turned to Mr. Prueitt. Benchmark needed that expertise. It is not uncommon to engage professionals such as Mr. Prueitt, with over 50 years of engineering and restoration experience to authenticate cars. Many times key documents have been destroyed or lost and the exact nature of a car’s origins are muddled.

[Tucker Fan 48]

Funny how a car that Allan Reinert once said was nothing more than a firewall and a couple body panels
is now suddenly an entire car. Cole acts as though all he did was put a coat of paint on it and tighten
a few bolts. He trots Al Prueitt out as an expert on Tuckers. Prueitt was the curator and manager
of Gene Zimmerman's Museum in Harrisburg PA where they had signs posted and insisted that Tucker
made only 19 automobiles and that they had one of the nineteen. Prueitt was a part of that lie. Even if
it turns out he did not agree with it, he was the curator and manager. It was his responsibility to set
the record straight. When he didn't do that, he showed that his integrity can be bought. If it was Gene
Zimmerman that insisted that the 19 Tucker story be told and Prueitt went along with it, then he was
bought by his employer. Why now 40 years later should we trust that Prueitt was not paid off by Justin
Cole? If Cole really wanted his car "authenticated" then why not pay Richard Jones or some of the other
REAL Tucker expects to fly in and look over the car. These guys have buildings full of Tucker documents.
They know almost where every nut and bolt that ever went though the plant is at. They know the history
of every engine including the one in the convertible. Cole tries to suggest that #1027 was scrapped after
the roll over at Indy. Yet again another attempt to hide the truth. Justin there are documents that show
that statement is a lie! #1027 was not scrapped and you know it. You'd like people to think it was so that
your car could not possibly be #1027. Maybe it's not, but you refuse to address how your car has damage
in the exact same places as the documented and photographed damage on #1027. The car appears to
be very nice. Certainly many of the parts came from Tucker automobiles. Too bad you won't admit what
even Reinert did, that it started as a firewall and a couple body panels.

Cole goes on to twist and suggest that the official position of TACA on the convertible is the position
of Jay Follis and not as the position of the group. Cole goes on to say that Jay would not be qualified
to look at his car. I'm sure Jay would agree he is not a restoration expert, but Cole is simply twisting
stories as he always does to deflect the truth. The official statement says that TACA has never been
presented the car by it's present owner. I don't read anywhere in the statement that Jay planned to
"authenticate" the convertible all by himself! By twisting the statement, Cole is attempting to deflect
any question about Al Prueitt by saying that Jay Follis is not as qualified as Prueitt would be to restore
a car. Prueitt is probably more qualified in restoration than a lot of people that visit this board but how
does that make him an expect on Tuckers? How would he know if a Tucker is real or not? Could it come
from his years of experience as the curator and manager of a museum that owned one of the 19 Tuckers
that were ever built? Oh wait, he was part of that mis-statement so where does that leave him? How
much more garbage will they try to heap on this story?

[Prototype]

Fascinating.

http://www.oldcarsweekly.com/article/bu ... m_auction/

Fascinating indeed, and noteworthy as well. I have attended many Barrett-Jackson auctions, including last April, when GM was unloading many pieces from their heritage collection. Many of the cars were scrutinized for their provenance or their actual historical value, as well as their lack of titles or proper paperwork. The auction of several vehicles was stopped in part by the Fed's because of these discrepancies, for fear of these vehicles being titled and registered and eventually driven on the street. After some negotiation's involving selling the vehicles with salvage titles or bill's of sale, the auction went forward. My point being is that B-J staff are very thorough when it comes to verifying the authenticity of any consignor that lays claim (outrageous or legitimate) to a vehicle with ANY such historical connections! Now this is merely speculation, and I do not state this as fact, but perhaps B-J has rejected the Convertible because they have not seen any or enough evidence to put it on the block. Several things come to mind as to why this may be the case: 1) The documentation; 2) The numbers (VIN tag, body stampings, engine number); 3) Mileage (2 Tenths of a mile??); 4) The construction. Now, I have not seen the car up close and in person, but the pictures do not do this car any justice, their are way too many things to list here as to why this car is not worth a concour's price, but a short list would be: the il-fitting of the tops' boot cover, the radio cover!! and the dash pad, to name a few. I have been around cars my entire life and I have seen many, many 100 point cars and I hate to say it, but this car is not one of them to command a price $5,000,000, finshed or not(original ebay listing). Yes the car is beautiful, but it should have been marketed as a "Tribute" car instead of how it has been handled, I think it would have helped much better in the long run than creating "hype" about a car that never existed until someone took a sawzall to it in their garage. Just my opinion, but I have built (and auctioned)some pretty outrageous Hot Rods and custom trucks, but I have not and would NOT EVER try to pass a "Tribute" or "Clone" off as the real thing. Years ago my neighbor, who retired from Ford gave me an X'd out VIN tag (H9KS1XXXXX) from a '59 Ford F-100, that was on a genuine prototype from FoMoCo. He personally removed it from the truck in '60 before the truck was sent to the crusher. A friend suggested I use it on one of my projects, but I refused, for obvious ethical reasons. I won't be attending the upcoming auction because of too many ongoing projects, but I will be watching and may bid, it just depends if there is something I can't live without.

[Tuckerfan1053]

Here's a question: Has anyone contacted the club (or one of its members) and said that they intend to bid on the car and would like the name of someone to bring with them to inspect the car? I'm not looking for names (either of the bidder or the expert), just if this was done. I know that if I was going to plunk down some serious amounts of money for a car with a controversial history behind it, I'd do this. If it hasn't been done, then it seems likely to me that this indicates nobody is serious about spending large amounts of money for the car.

[Prototype]

Sorry to get off topic, but another note to my above post. Some may remember the story of Boyd Coddington in 2005, when he was charged with Title fraud by the State of California for his role in VIN swapping and registering his creations as "antique cars" with an outside Title company virtually rendering the cars as useless as drivers. He eventually plead guilty to a misdemeanor and was fined $3000.00 and ordered to perform 160 hours of community service. He faced up to five years in jail if convicted of a Felony in court. In fact, another well known builder and friend of Coddington, Whom has a shop in Portland, Or, Distanced himself from Boyd after this for doing much of the same thing, even though it is legal here(technically speaking), it is a Federal offense to even REMOVE the VIN tag for restoration or painting purposes. I personally stopped removing the tags when I was asked after an inspection how I was able paint flawlessly "behind" the door tag and when it became harder and harder (and expensive, $120.00 for 2 of them)to obtain the stainless "Rosette" rivets used by the OEM's. This is relevant only because Justin Cole has stated that the Con-Vera-tible is a "new" car with no miles on it and the new owner will be the first owner, since it has never been registered. Now, I would like to know where they obtained a Data Plate and Title for this creation. I have seen reproduction "Tucker" and other data plates and some companies will re-create fender and cowl tags from genuine originals, but they will NOT make replacement VIN tags, EVER. PERIOD!

[Prototype]

Here's a question: Has anyone contacted the club (or one of its members) and said that they intend to bid on the car and would like the name of someone to bring with them to inspect the car? I'm not looking for names (either of the bidder or the expert), just if this was done. I know that if I was going to plunk down some serious amounts of money for a car with a controversial history behind it, I'd do this. If it hasn't been done, then it seems likely to me that this indicates nobody is serious about spending large amounts of money for the car.

This is very good question! If this has not alreadybeen done, then any potential buyer(s) must live under a rock or is buying this story hook, line and sinker! I wonder if they want to buy the 300 car underground garage I have for sale? Considering this guy will have to be very stinkin' rich to buy this albatross, he could afford it. I myself, think the car will have a reserve so high, that it will remain unsold anyway.

[Tuckerfan1053]

Perhaps we're not at this from the right angle. Maybe Cole's not really interested in selling the car, only in looking like he intends to sell it. Let's take a look at this from both sides of the car's provenance issue.

Assume that Cole has evidence (to a degree) which proves that the car was something Tucker wanted to build (say a handwritten note from Tucker), if Cole's serious about unloading the car, then he's naturally going to try and do whatever he can to get the Club and people from the Club to call the car legit. Even a "We're not 100% certain about this car, but we know Tucker was interested in building a convertible and there's some documentation which indicates that if any work was done, it would most likely have been this car." is better than what the Club has said.

Now, if the car is a fake, Cole knows, I'm certain, that any serious buyer (or his insurance company) is probably going to discover this fact fairly quickly. Generally when one goes to insure things that are expensive, the insurance company likes to have a quick look at things to make sure that you're not running a scam on them. I'm not a lawyer, but once you start defrauding people above a few thousand dollars, this gets into felony territory, and if it involves transactions across state lines, then the Feds get involved, and that adds a whole 'nother layer of criminal prosecution to the mix.

However, if Cole's not serious about selling the car, only in making it look that way (say by listing the car on eBay before its ever finished, having an asking price 5X greater than what any Tucker has sold for at auction, putting an unknown reserve amount on the car [potentially as high as the asking price], being cagey in his dealings with the Club), then he's not risking a lawsuit at the very least (if/when the buyer discovers he's been sold something other than what he was told he was getting), and criminal prosecution at the most, but he gets a huge amount of publicity (for free, or next to nothing) over the matter. He can also reignite the whole thing all over again, anytime he wants, simply by putting the car up "for sale" because he knows the moment he does so, Club members will come out and say its a fake.

Meanwhile, he can display the thing at his shop (thus using it as bait to attract potential customers) and spin the story about how he's not able to sell it because of jealous folks in the Club, etc., etc., etc.

If that's what he's up to, all I can say is "Well played, sir. Well played." Its as brilliant a piece of guerrilla marketing as I've ever seen.

[TuckerCar]

Here's a question: Has anyone contacted the club (or one of its members) and said that they intend to bid on the car and would like the name of someone to bring with them to inspect the car?

No.

[plancor 792]

Got to admit that my telephone has not been ringing and no one has contacted me by email or through the TACA web site. I could be available if the price is right.
Richard

[Tuckeroo]

Tuckerfan1053, if you are correct and the car does not sell, then I can only say congratulations, Mr. Cole, you bought yourself a Tucker convertible. If you truly believe so emphatically in its provenance as your statements make it seem, then you can be proud of that.

PS: I have been contacted.

[Prototype]

Well, supposedly the car will going across the block on Saturday at 8 PM. It will be very interesting to see what, if anything, happens. Like I said before, and I could very well be wrong, but I think it will remain unsold because of too high of a reserve or it doesn't even make it to the tent for whatever reason.

[john]

Hey guys,
I found your posts herein quite interesting and with a point no one has spoken of yet.
I was wondering, how can the conv have serial number 1057 ?
Did the Club assign that serial number to it?

The Tuckers were given an affixed plate on the cowl upon completion with the 10 added, weren't they?
Ummmmm,
John

[mframe4646]

Wow, You guys have raised alot of great points. I have sat back quietly over the last few months and let the car get finished and have not checked on what has been written about for awhile. Good stuff here. I and my business partner were both working for benchmark classics when the tucker was bought. We started the restoration on it. It was a great debate amongst us that worked there. The more we worked on it and the more people we met and learned things the more we based our own opinion on it. I had not heard that the doors were stamped indicating that they were planning on putting them in production. Those doors were added on to and use the insides of a buick or oldsmobile. We were able to trace the part numbers on the vent windows to be from an oldsmobile. Also the doors look to have been wire welded when stretched out- He had some pretty advanced technology to have wire welded them up, no wonder the big three ran him out of business.
The biggest most obvious thing we said- is with the skilled workers and craftsman he had at the time I truley doubt he would have started with a 4 door sedan to start the project. The would have mounted a cowl and hand built the doors, 1/4's, and the rear convertible tub surround to work.
We really like the affadavit from the guys who was doing work on it for Al back in the 90's- His statement about the two old timers who came in and said they were a part of wacking the roof off. That was only about 5% of the information he gave us at the time. After he left Justin told us all that this gentleman was never here and we didnt speak to him. Everyone would really like to how much work he really did on the car, lets just say not every panel that Justin states is true tucker parts are truley tucker parts.
Either way if it is real or not- the car turned absolutley beautiful- Everyhing one would hope it would appear to be. Well all find out Sat night how his gamble pays off.

[Natalie]

http://scottsdalearizonanews.blogspot.c ... -auto.html

If just the top of the tent came off, they could call it a convertible and hike up admission...