Archive - Work in Progress

[Tuckeroo]

Those videos are a lot to try and absorb in one go, but a since Alex Tremulis is discussed and I have taken an interest in his statements on the matter, please consider:

The Indomitable Tin Goose (page 90 in the 1988 Pocketbook publication):

Tremulis continued as chief stylist, working on changes for future models, and had body No. 57 when the plant closed down.
"We were changing the rear window to a full wrap-around and had already started to cut openings for the re-styling job," he said. "We were also planning changes in the front fenders which we were going to experiment with on that body. [emphasis added].

One could hardly be blamed for not thinking that No. 57 and the car with the wrap around window are not mutually exclusive.

Alex Tremulis again, Collectible Automobile July 1985, page 62:

We also asked Tremulis about other models: "We talked about a convertible, but we never designed it."

Can anyone corroborate/refute the story that all Tuckers after serial number 1036 or 1037 were built outside of the factory with non-factory employees? My understanding was that this was done inside the factory with a recalled workforce of about 300, some of whom volunteered.

I will try as soon as I can to corroborate the wheelbase measurements I quoted earlier.

[Randy Earle]

I don't think this thread should be broke up either.

[john]

Tucker 48 & Randy, and all others,
Hopefully, this entire topic, as is, will be locked for reference, it is to mixed up with attempt to combine too much.

The story will stay as one, at least this is my belief.

Hoping that the >>>>Conv:myth or real >>>> would have it's own board index.

When clicking on this board index, sub chapters, so to say, would be listed, each controversial topic would have it's seperate readable and understandable area.

Not changing or deleting anything I hope, just makes it where all material contained herein, A LOT, would be in a comprehensable spot, comments and facts would be distinct and stay in order.

Yes, we agree, a chapter area for the frame is a must.

We place request to all the have written, all that have not, to please place your suggestions as to the topics that are trivial and of most importance.

Tucker Car will have his job cut out to cut and paste items and quotes from all area's of the Tucker clubs posts herein, TO MAKE SENSE.

Can't we make it easy for him and anyone else trying to grasp what the hell is going on????????????

We will follow irregardless, just would be professional and in order, we may understand our posts, the vast majority do not though.

We know there are other writers and historians here, is that they way itys done guys???
till the next time,
John

[Tucker Fan 48]

Tuckeroo, the You Tube videos of Allan Reinert are a bit long but you quickly get the feeling they don't like John.
I guess maybe he hatched too many easter eggs.

Seems like we've hit a nerve with them. I watched all 40+ minutes and still there are no facts that can be proved.
Seems more like two guys trying to keep their story going. Even Reinert says several times "the rumor was". If
they want people to believe a story they need a lot more than rumor.

Allan says he told Alex Tremulus that he had a Tucker convertible and Tremulus told him he had one rare car. It
sounds like something Tremulus might have said given that Tremulus knew there was no Tucker convertible ever
built, so if Allan had one it would be very rare.

Even the documents posted on their site prove nothing. Some guy restored a frame for Allan around 1990. How
does that prove it was modified at the factory? Another thing that is odd, if the car were kept undercover for all
those years, why is the frame so rusty in 1990? Justin still keeps refering to the June 1994 Tucker Topics as proof
the car is real.

I'm thinking if Mel Koeppen is still alive he's going to be really pissed when he finds out Benchmark has posted
his social security number on the internet. He'd be 95 years old so maybe he won't care anymore. Guess Mel's
social security number must be proof the "convertible" is real.

[Tuckerfan1053]

I'm thinking if Mel Koeppen is still alive he's going to be really pissed when he finds out Benchmark has posted
his social security number on the internet. He'd be 95 years old so maybe he won't care anymore.

Identity theft is a real problem for people of all ages (imagine being in a retirement home, having your savings wiped out, and being chucked out on the street because you can no longer pay your bills at 95), even dead people are having their identities stolen. For that reason, I like posting Richard Nixon's SSN (567-68-0515) when appropriate!

[Tuckeroo]

Well I'm starting to get a a clearer sense of what their story actually is, but unfortunately to believe it still requires quite a bit of blind faith as the people who gave verbal accounts are sadly no longer with us. Mr. Reinert's testimony (particularily with regard to interviews, which are only being recounted verbally) is all that is being presented and I don't believe would be substantial enough to sway opinions here. It appears that the only reason they keep bringing up the 1994 Tucker Topics remark is that they don't understand why that did not elicit debate then as there is so much going on now. However, as a club member since 1993, I can assure there was quite a bit of debate by that time but it was not as public or heated as it has become now. But lack of debate is of no value as evidence. I still do not believe the passage from The Indomitable Tin Goose I have quoted before corroborates their story, for the reasons I have indicated. Nor does the testimony of Alex Tremulis in that and other written works. If he stated anything at any other time to the contrary, I have not seen it documented. I have not seen the letter from the Melvin Koeppen they discuss. It is interesting to see the documents here which show the discussions with Lenke, Ringling, etc. posted here. There is talk of experimental projects, including the concept of an aluminum bodied Tucker (never built as far as I know, but if it showed up...whoa boy!) What it demonstrates to me is that there is documentation about experimental projects...so unless one wishes to take the Rumsfieldian approach to this and declare that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, we should be allowed to hope for something more tangible. Truly I believe that their belief is emphatic, and therefore we must seem like bullies...though I wish that was not the case. Speculation destroyed the car company we love, and I seek not to destroy this car with speculation, but wish for that reason that it be built on something more than speculation.

[TUCKER]

After some research on the net I found out Mel Koeppen is 95 and he live in Wisconsin. Maybe they do hope for an identity theft to take the number and then find the theft and get money out of him for taking the number If I were you I would think about why he gave this name and number. Maybe it's a clue as of where the real 57 is. Think about it. This other person lived in Allen's area and may have the real 57 at his place. I like to follow his clues since he like to play with clues like I told you some many pages ago here.

[Tucker Fan 48]

It appears that the only reason they keep bringing up the 1994 Tucker Topics remark is that they don't understand why that did not elicit debate then as there is so much going on now.

I doubt that members of the club would have got into heated arguments with Allan during their conventions. They were there to
have fun and enjoy themselves and I'll bet there was a lot of discussion when he was out of the room.

The other reason there was not much discussion then is the internet. It barely existed in 1994. My guess is that the June 1994
Tucker Topics did not have a lot of copies printed. While it is probably not as rare as a Tucker Convertible I doubt there were
ever a lot of them out there. How many people would have been at that convention? My point is not many people ever saw the
article so how many could possibly object? Now with the internet, we've all been able to read it. We've all said that there was
hardly a discussion, as Justin Cole claims, but just a mention that Allan was there with a bunch of pictures. Certainly nothing
that proves the car is real.

The Koeppen letter simply asks Allan if he ever got the convertible finished. Hardly proof the car is real.

Truly I believe that their belief is emphatic, and therefore we must seem like bullies

I personally feel different about that. I think it's the other way around. I believe they are trying so hard to ram this story down
peoples throats that they are angry that they have been caught. How many times have we seen criminals deny they had anything
to do with the crime when ALL the evidence shows otherwise. People that are dishonest are always emphatic. They want you to
believe their story. Scott Peterson was emphatic he did not kill Laci. Bill Clinton was emphatic, he did not have sex with that
woman. Richard Nixon was emphatic, I am not a crook. This is not the only website that is ripping this cars story to shreads.
I think everyone here would love to believe this story if only there was one fact that showed it to be true.

If the car was real, then why doesn't Allan just say I bought it from Bill Smith (made up name) and Bill lived at XXX Main St. in
Chicago. Bill died a few years ago but his son Tommy remembers playing in the car and Tommy has pictures of Bill and Joe Lencki.
Tommy also knows Joe's son and his son remembers playing on it at the shop. Evidence like that would certainly be more real than
a statement from a guy that worked on the frame in 1990.

[TuckerCar]

After some research on the net I found out Mel Koeppen is 95 and he live in Wisconsin. Maybe they do hope for an identity theft to take the number and then find the theft and get money out of him for taking the number If I were you I would think about why he gave this name and number. Maybe it's a clue as of where the real 57 is. Think about it. This other person lived in Allen's area and may have the real 57 at his place. I like to follow his clues since he like to play with clues like I told you some many pages ago here.

As I recall, there is a nudist camp a couple blocks from Reinert's house. Maybe they can uncover the whereabouts of the real 1057 and present us with the naked truth.

[Tucker Fan 48]

Things that make you go hmmm...

Allan Reinert says he found the car in the 6400 block of South Halsted on the south side of Chicago.
So I thought I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and do a little research. Well, the story just got
another hole. Kennedy-King College is located at 6300 So. Halsted in Chicago. Their campus covers
18 acres from 63rd to 65th and from Green St. to Lowe Av. In other words, it covers the entire
6400 block of So. Halsted. It opened in the fall of 2007 so any homes there in 1981 or 1982 are
conveniently gone. The Kennedy-King College was an urban renewal project that covered about 20
square blocks of the south side of Chicago and was in the Chicago news quite often over a 5 year
period.

Benchmark has an affidavit from someone, (they blanked out the name), that says they saw the
convertible in 1972 at a machine shop on Blue Mound Road in Milwaukee!!! How could the car be in
Milwaukee Wisconsin in 1972 when Allan swears it was kept undercover by a former Lencki employee
in Chicago until 1981 or 1982? Is this yet another hole in their story?

I'd really like to believe just one part of their story but so far the only thing they seem to have
proved is some guy worked on the frame for Allan in 1990, Mel Koeppen, the Tucker accountant,
wanted to see Allan's car in 2000, Mel's social security number is (you'll have to go to Benchmarks
site to get that), and the Tucker Topics in June of 1994 mentioned Allan.

[Tuckeroo]

Nudist camps? Leaving clues for us to follow? I hope you are not serious. It's starting to sound too Scooby-Doo. Do you wish to maintain the upper hand of common sense or not? Reputations are being challenged, including the reputation of our organization. Please be mindful of what you say and how you say it (granted, we haven't done something so fool-hardy as to encourage identity theft). But when I suggest that we may sound like bullies, I am imagining the mindset of an outside observer. Even if one speaks the truth they cannot win support for their viewpoint if they speak it condescendingly. Additionally, we cannot fight wild conjecture with more wild conjecture.

[TUCKER]

guess we are done here with this 'vert and nothing else to solve here. The egg cracked open and it was not o 57-'vert-goose but a can of worms that ended being 1027 with a face lift. If there is need of other parts to solve on this can of worms I will be glad to do my best to solve as done on the past. I shure cracked that blue egg to waltz blue 27. Take care and hope you enjoyed most of my photos cracking the egg
Till later

[john]

Guys,
We have a copy of the bill of sale when alan bought the car in the early 70's, documented by the way.

We traced the name on the bill of sale, even spoke to a well known auto appraiser and historian for help, documented by the way.

Tucker, do so get a kick out of your writting and antics>>>

Will tend to the truth, regarding slanderous remarks about myself and my business associate in Michigan in the youtube fantasy film in due time.
They still need some more rope,

Lets kick back and wait to see how Tucker Car sets up the new site area for the topic, we can organize and finish the job then.
till the next time,
John

[TuckerCar]

Nudist camps? Leaving clues for us to follow? I hope you are not serious. It's starting to sound too Scooby-Doo. Do you wish to maintain the upper hand of common sense or not? Reputations are being challenged, including the reputation of our organization. Please be mindful of what you say and how you say it (granted, we haven't done something so fool-hardy as to encourage identity theft). But when I suggest that we may sound like bullies, I am imagining the mindset of an outside observer. Even if one speaks the truth they cannot win support for their viewpoint if they speak it condescendingly. Additionally, we cannot fight wild conjecture with more wild conjecture.

No, seriously. When we went to get 1043, we ended up in a Nudist Camp.

[TUCKER]

No, seriously. When we went to get 1043, we ended up in a Nudist Camp.

Maybe thats where they found the 'vert with the top off