Mystery Car #2 -"the new can of worms that hide secrets"

[TUCKER]

Yes but it is not 52 or 1027 like posted under "see a Tucker". Al Reinart have made up many stories on the cars he sold and 99% of what he sold had stories made up by him and numbers have been changed. Al Reinart sold 3 cars as experimental cars and non of them were but maybe one car. This may be the only real experimental car sold by Al Reinart but like always he made up a number for it.

[Tuckeroo]

So my question is, did it have a serial number (and if so what was it) or if not where in the sequence of cars was it built (even if it was not on the line what was the concurrent car being built)?

[streamliner]

Perhaps you guys would know the identities of these two engine/chassis configurations? The Tucker frame photo is the actual photograph that was supplied to Phil Egan for use in his book, Design and Destiny, but I don't know if the description in his book is accurate or not for this particular photo, since I don't have my copy readily available. It has no proof marks, copyrights, or credits on the back of it, nor a date. Someone may recognize the tiny bit of the car in the background, if that helps to date it. There were probably more photos taken of this frame at the same time, but I haven't found any yet. I've always been under the impression that this was either one of the test chassis or a demo/display chassis...



This other frame and engine is also somehow Tucker-related, but I don't know how at this point. That is one peculiar engine, for sure, and this must also have a very interesting story behind it. It's possible this is just a relic from Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg, but I'm sure someone can identify it:



It has the studio's name (PERSONIUS ELMIRA) embossed in the lower right hand corner:



There is a Personius studio in Elmira NY, but it was founded in 1985. Tuckeroo, you're a pro at solving AutoPuzzles. Any ideas? Does anyone have any more information on either of these?

[Tuckerfan1053]

Hmm. That almost looks like a radial engine. I don't know if Ford was ever interested in them, but I know that he wanted to do an X-Block engine, which basically would have been two V-block engines mated at the oil pans.

Whatever it was, it had the engine mounted over the rear wheels, as those wheels don't appear to have any steering linkages connected to them.

[Tuckeroo]

The first photo is Tucker test chassis #1 as I referred to earlier and along side is the Tin Goose (the two were displayed together). Either it's present location is unknown or it is one and the same (though with some modifications) with what is being referred to today as test chassis #2 in the Cammack collection. Off the top of my head your second test chassis appears to have an X4 rear mounted engine...my first guess would be one of the GM X-cars circa 1934-1938, of which 3 were built:

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2007/06/17/sia-flashback-gms-x-cars/

There are still a few significant differences (not least of which the X-cars presumably had no frames) that would make me want to research further, though...
One interesting feature, its powerplant could be quickly removed ("rolled out") for servicing.
I have also read that Hudson had developed prototypes with rear-mounted X4s and X8s, but information is sparse and I have not found any photos yet. Perhaps I should post this to Autopuzzles.

Similar experiments from Chrysler but with a Radial 5 and front mounted/front wheel drive:

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2007/07/29/sia-flashback-mopars-star-cars/

And Ford, rear mounted V8:

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2007/06/24/sia-flashback-henrys-pushers/

[TUCKER]

here are some test photos of the test chassis #2 which is not 1027 and have never been sold by Stan Gilliland or Al Reinart. Now look at the photos on the convertible site and if you see closely it now have numbers 52 stamped on the coul. Looks like someone likes to be stamping numbers that don't belong on the cars

look here for same car http://tuckerconvertible.com/test_pic_n ... hp?id=1102
they are trying to prove it is not test chassis #2 which had fenders and many panels along with bumpers from 1018 and a pair or doors from 1027. Now it even have a number stamped on it that do not belong there

Another thing funny is that the frame is now missing on the test car?? I wonder where it went

[Tuckeroo]

Does the back of the photo say "one of the cars sat outside in Ill and just rusted away?"

[streamliner]

There's more: "One of the cars that sat outside in Ill. and just rusted away. ... ...56... ...T"

Also: 1) Did "Test Chassis #2" also have strengthening inserts to the frame? There's 7 adults on that frame and no body!
and, 2) Was the cowl of "Test Chassis #2" stamped with any number at the Tucker plant, or how/when did it end up with #52 (assuming that the frame in the Kughn collection is actually the original "Test Chassis #2")?

[TUCKER]

This car has never been sold by Al Reinart as I know. Also why is the frame missing on this car on the last photos seen of it lately??? That shure is strange. So do you think the convertible was started with frame 1027 and then later changed to this frame? It shure had to be reinforced to hold many people now thinking about it.

[streamliner]

This other frame and engine is also somehow Tucker-related, but I don't know how at this point. That is one peculiar engine, for sure, and this must also have a very interesting story behind it. It's possible this is just a relic from Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg, but I'm sure someone can identify it:



It has the studio's name (PERSONIUS ELMIRA) embossed in the lower right hand corner:

After years of searching, I've finally got an answer (thanks especially to the ACD Club members) and more questions. It was built by Otto Szekely around 1936. Szekely owned an industrial design firm and looks to be a mechanical wizard. He lived in Elmira, New York, in 1936. He also invented numerous differentials and transmissions, aircraft engines (3 cylinder radial), and the three-wheeled Jeep tugs as seen on aircraft carriers of the 1950's. There are a lot of parallels with Tucker's plans.

So, are there any Tucker records that reference either Otto Szekely or O. E. Szekely and Associates for any of the engine and transmission work that was being done at Tucker Corporation?

Here's Szekely's patent on the chassis setup that I found on Google Patents after hours of searching: