Tucker Top Speed Records

[Tuckeroo]

This might have even gone in Fact or Fiction, and was inspired by the discussion in this post:

http://www.tuckerclub.org/bbs3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1849

Regarding the supposed record top speed set for a Tucker, #1045 in 1960 at Sebring as driven by Count Alfonso de Portago. As he died in 1957, (http://forix.autosport.com/8w/portago.html) this makes at least the date and/or identity of the driver suspect. Equally unlikely is the achieved top speed of between 131mph to 134mph at a distance of only a 1/4 of a mile (specific times of 131.62 or 131.64 have been presented in conjunction with this legend).

Another story concerns Bill Hamlin drag racing Tucker #1014 at LA County Fairgrounds in 1954 and posting a more realistic 1/4 mile speed of 78.8mph. The newer Oldsmobile 88 against which he was competing lost.

However, I have another story that would be worth verifying: this one concerns Tucker #1010 making 3 runs at Bonneville Salt Flats in 1950 and averaging a speed of either 131.62mph or 131.64mph and a top speed of 134mph. I have no exact date or identity of the driver, but the figures at least have some plausibility, the distance covered is not included in any iteration of the story but I think the 1/4 mile limitation can be ditched. The "return run" rule at Bonneville is in place, as I understand it, to ensure that the speed set was not obtained by taking advantage of geographical (downhill incline) or weather (downwind) conditions, and that is where averaging the speeds of the runs becomes critical.

So...having not yet made any formal inquiries, does anyone have the background on this story?

[streamliner]

Tuckeroo: Here's AlexTremulis' account(s) of the top speeds for the Tucker. This seems to be the most comprehensive account of the Tucker's acceleration and top speeds. He gave 1952 as the date of #1010's Bonneville runs, but no date on The Marquis de Portago's run on the back stretch at Sebring.

Bonneville would only be used for top speed during a measured mile after several miles of getting up to speed (in some instances 7 or 8 miles). It's not appropriate for 1/4 mile or 0-60 times since there is so much less traction on the salt. Also, the two-way requirement was (is) used by one of the sanctioning bodies during Speed Week (2010's Speed Week is next week, over 500 entries), so this may not have been done during 1952's Speed Week. If it was, there would be a record of it. Check out: http://www.landracing.com/ as there are many old-timers and experts who were there at the time. There are also a lot of 1960's photos taken by Alex Tremulis, starting at: http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,5202.1080.html. WARNING: Be prepared to burn up a few hours going through the thread from the beginning.

Anyway, here's a draft of Alex's article (I know you're already familiar with it):

[Tucker Fan 48]

Regarding the supposed record top speed set for a Tucker, #1045 in 1960 at Sebring as driven by Count Alfonso de Portago. As he died in 1957, (http://forix.autosport.com/8w/portago.html) this makes at least the date and/or identity of the driver suspect. Equally unlikely is the achieved top speed of between 131mph to 134mph at a distance of only a 1/4 of a mile (specific times of 131.62 or 131.64 have been presented in conjunction with this legend).

Another story concerns Bill Hamlin drag racing Tucker #1014 at LA County Fairgrounds in 1954 and posting a more realistic 1/4 mile speed of 78.8mph. The newer Oldsmobile 88 against which he was competing lost.

However, I have another story that would be worth verifying: this one concerns Tucker #1010 making 3 runs at Bonneville Salt Flats in 1950 and averaging a speed of either 131.62mph or 131.64mph and a top speed of 134mph. I have no exact date or identity of the driver, but the figures at least have some plausibility, the distance covered is not included in any iteration of the story but I think the 1/4 mile limitation can be ditched. The "return run" rule at Bonneville is in place, as I understand it, to ensure that the speed set was not obtained by taking advantage of geographical (downhill incline) or weather (downwind) conditions, and that is where averaging the speeds of the runs becomes critical.

So...having not yet made any formal inquiries, does anyone have the background on this story?

All three stories are true although the dates above are off on when Marquis Alphonse de Portago drove the car at Sebring. I have verified information that it occured in 1957. I'm assuming he was still alive at that time however if he was otherwise dead it could explain why traving that fast didn't scare the hell out of him. The car was clocked at 131.8 MPH. He used one of Nick Jenin's cars. Jenin said it still had the original spark plugs in it from 1948. Jenin also won the Amoco Trophy that year for the most interesting car in the old car parade at Sebring, although he traveled at a much slower speed in the parade.

[Tuckerfan1053]

Here's what floored me:

I used to think when Dr. Lymann, our suspension and brake expert and proud possessor of over 800 patents, insisted that when we got the right tires the Tuckers were going to stop in 240 ft. at 90 MPH as the ravings of a mad man.

Here's a 2001 comparison of that model year family sedans. If you download the PDFs of the vehicle specs and the test results, you'll see that the cars (all of which are smaller than a Tucker) weigh around 3,300 to 3,600 lbs. and at 70 MPH had a stopping distance from 191 to 230 ft.

[Tuckeroo]

Reading these figures, thinking about what might have been, practically brings tears to my eyes. It confirms Tucker was on par for performance with the Jaguar XK120 (fastest production car for 1948)...even though the Tucker was a 4-door six passenger sedan and the Jag was a lithe 2-seat sports car.

[CDB]

So doesn't the confirmation of the de Portago and Tucker # 1045 story give added value to #1045 coming up for auction in two days? Charles D. Barnette

[Tucker Fan 48]

I'm not sure that it has ever been established that it was #1045 that was used. In all of my records Nick Jenin states it was one of his Tuckers. Ken Purdy of True Magazine is quoted on the subject several times over the years but I don't find anything from him either about #1045. Maybe someone knows where that started?

[plancor 792]

In the late 1960's when I visited Bell'm Museum in Sarasota, Florida there was a card on Tucker 1045 that said it had set that record. I took down the information and tried to verify it and was never able to do so. Those at Sebring said it didn't happen as the driver died a few years prior. Tucker Serial Number 1045 was used in the Segram's ads also.
Walter Bellm purchased this Tucker from Nick Jenin on 7 November 1966

[Tucker Fan 48]

Richard your information as always is great. Sounds like the #1045 connection came from the Bellm plaque.
Interesting information about #1045 being used in the Seagrams ads.

The information I found was in an article with a direct quote from Nick Jenin about Marquis Alphonse de Portago driving the car at Sebring. Jenin said that it occured in 1957. de Portago died May 12 1957 so if he was at Sebring it would have had to been early 1957. Jenin won the Amoco Trophy that year for the most interesting car in the old car parade at Sebring but I don't know if it happened at two separate dates or if the racing of the car happened at the same time as the parade. I would think there would be some newspaper articles or records of de Portago being at Sebring in 1957 for some event if this happened.

[plancor 792]

When I contacted Sebring Officials they told me that any activity at the track is recorded. They have no knowledge of this event taking place at the track. Somewhere in my correspondence i probably still have that information.
Richard

[WQ59B]

I distinctly recall reading that the Tucker run @ Sebring was in 1956.
Can't find the source in my file, but numbers have a way of sticking in my head. Henry Ford site >http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/showroom/1948/specs.html< states the same, and I didn't get it from there.

I have seen a few other internet references that state the same (natch- likely from the same source).
Maybe the Sebring officials should check the 1956 records ?

[Tucker Fan 48]

I've got a lot of research on my plate right now on other cars but maybe someone can check and see if De Portago was even at Sebring during this period or even in the US. If he wasn't here then chances are it didn't happen. If he was a Sebring for a race in the spring of 1957 then it is always possible that the Sebring officials didn't clock the Tucker and write it down, but it still happened.

The quote I have is directly from Nick Jenin and I have not run across anything else from him where I've noticed he embellished a story regarding a Tucker.

[Tuckeroo]

There's been much about Tucker lately on the Hemmings blog. Coincidentally there was this link posted regarding Count de Portago:

http://www.automobiliac.com/automobiliac/2010/8/10/de-portagos-final-moments.html

...still nothing on whether he was behind the wheel of Tucker yet...

[streamliner]

Old news, bad test data, but if you haven't already read it, it's new to you... 1986 Car and Driver Test Report

[Tuckeroo]

Re: 1986 Car and Driver Data
...I will of course need comparison data on other 40 year old cars that have sat dormant for awhile...oh wait I own one! Yeah, Tucker wins again Give me a month to rebuild my sticking brake calipers...