#1018

[Tucker Fan 48]

One thing in the back of my mind is....Bradford and Emporium PA are out in the middle of BFE. I grew up east of there, and if you want to talk about "out in the sticks" that's not stretching things. How the heck did a Tucker end up there in the land of the Zippo Lighter? It's all mountains and valleys....elk & deer jumping out all over the place. This stuff is turning into a Twilight Zone Episode.

That should work in our favor as to finding out who was the owner of (or person that had) #1018 in Bradford, PA.? Was it a dealer/distributor or had someone bought it somehow? It may have been a dealer/distributor. The car had been advertised in the East Aurora area prior to the accident on the "See a Tucker" tour. We have posts from years ago from a person that rode in the car in Bradford and personally saw the car back in the owners (or person that had) garage after it crashed.

There is a Lance L. Lewis living at 2177 Rich Valley Rd in Emporium. Lance was living in Bradford, PA. in 1971. His parents, June & Verne Lewis lived in Smethport, PA. His grandparents, Rena and Clive Lewis lived in Emporium, PA. Lance lived with his grandparents in Emporium for several years. Clive died in 1963 and Rena in 1971 after which Lance moved to Emporium. Verne passed away in 1972 and June moved to Emporium in 1989. Smethport and Bradford are less than 15 miles apart. Lance will know the history of the back half of #1018.

There was a thread back in 2005 on a lot of this but no one asked for more details from Frosty Clark in Raleigh, NC as to who the owner was and where he lived since Frosty and the owner's nephew had a ride in #1018 before the crash. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=278

Maybe Larry Clark can fill us in on the origins of #1018 and who had it in August of 1948. Does anyone have a copy of this newspaper article that is on file in the Museum in Ypsilanti?

[Larry Clark]

George McKinney, a supposedly major investor in Tucker Corporation, owned #1018 at the time of the car crash in August 1948. I have the name and possible contact information for Mr. McKinney's nephew who would have been around 12 at the time (who supposedly was crazy about the car) and of another person who might have had the front clip of 1018 in his garage for a while after the accident (from where it supposedly later "disappeared"). This latter person supposedly had the original data plate from the car (I have a photocopy picture of it). Unfortunately, I got too busy to keep on the search. My possible contact information is from a while ago but I will get on it and report back to the board what I find out.

Note: I used "supposedly" a lot in what I just provided because while I believe all the things I have said above are true, I try to get at least two sources to offer something as a "true" fact. As we know, some things commonly accepted as "true" facts have more recently been called into question from the diligent work of posters to the TACA web page. This is a good. I welcome anyone ever able to provide clarification or different possible facts to the stuff I post as I "have no dog in the hunt." Like most of you, I am just looking for the possible correct story of stuff.

Larry

[Tucker Fan 48]

That fits together. George R. McKinney (b. 1902, d. Dec 19, 1978) lived at 552 Minard Run Road, Bradford, PA. I believe George is tied
in with the Titusville (oil) McKinneys that lived not far away. George may have also had something to do with Motor Dealers, Inc., the Nash
dealer that opened in Bradford in 1948.

Lance Lewis was living in Bradford, PA. in 1971 at the same time George R. McKinney lived there. I think Lance was 8 at the time of
the crash and lived just a few miles from Bradford.

Bradford only had a population of around 8,000 so McKinney and Lewis probably met at some point. Most likely Lewis acquired the car from
McKinney. Either Lance Lewis or Joe Frick should know how the car was sold off.

[fordracer]

[quote="Tucker Fan 48"]
Question: Do we know if Les had more than the front half? Did he have the rear half of the body and if so, where did it go?

The car then went from Les to Wayne McKinley. How much Wayne had of #1018 is unknown at this time.

I can't answer this question, but for what it is worth, it is my understanding that at one time, Mr. McKinley had enough parts to build a complete car.

My father met Mr. McKinley once. This back in the late 60's or early 70's. He stopped to see a couple of Glen Pray Cords that he had in O'Fallon, IL, and the subject turned to the Trucker that Mr. McKinley had driven to work that day. My father got to take a good look at the car. When he left that day, he was under the impression that Mr. McKinley had a complete second car that had not been assembled. Unfortunately, he did not get to see the parts/other car.

[Tucker Fan 48]

Question: Do we know if Les had more than the front half? Did he have the rear half of the body and if so, where did it go?

The car then went from Les to Wayne McKinley. How much Wayne had of #1018 is unknown at this time.

I can't answer this question, but for what it is worth, it is my understanding that at one time, Mr. McKinley had enough parts to build a complete car.

My father met Mr. McKinley once. This back in the late 60's or early 70's. He stopped to see a couple of Glen Pray Cords that he had in O'Fallon, IL, and the subject turned to the Tucker that Mr. McKinley had driven to work that day. My father got to take a good look at the car. When he left that day, he was under the impression that Mr. McKinley had a complete second car that had not been assembled. Unfortunately, he did not get to see the parts/other car.

Did McKinley own any other Tucker's besides #1036? Could Tucker #1036 have been the one that was once advertised for sale by
John Spatafora in St Louis, MO.? St Louis, MO. and O'Fallon, IL are only 20 miles apart. Did McKinley sell #1036 to Robert Pond?

scan0017.jpg (23.15 KiB) Viewed 1841 times

Wayne McKinley was a Chevrolet Dealer in O'Fallon, Illinois

From 1964 to 1966, McKinley and Tulsa businessman and school teacher Glenn Pray manufactured a Chevrolet Corvair-powered front wheel
drive version of the original 8/10 Cord with a convertible top and a body composite called Royalex® developed by U.S. Rubber Company.
Glenn Pray departed at the early stages of manufacturing to pursue production of his Auburn Speedster, while Leroy Duncan and Wayne McKinley
stayed through until 97 of the Corvair-powered 8/10 Sportsman's were built. Persistent financial difficulties pushed the company into bankruptcy
by 1967.

McKinley owned some pretty rare vehicles. He once owned the 1903 Columbus electric car that is now owned by Harold and Lill Coker
of Coker Tire. He also had a 1933 Auburn. His ownership of the Auburn and involvement in the Cords would certainly have put him in
contact with Stan Gilliland.

McKinley supposedly owned Lot #684 which he sold to Stan Gilliland who the passed it to Richard Kughn. It would be interesting to find out
where the rear sheet metal from #1018 went.

[streamliner]

Richard Jones' article in The Milestone Car (Spring 1975) provides a great snapshot as of what was known at that time.

Does anyone have any more info on the "5" stamped front end of what was believed to be #1018 or, better yet, any photos of the "5"?

Exactly where was the "5" stamped?

Where is/are the "5" stamped part(s) today???

Tucker Fan 48, you may be on to something here...

[Tucker Fan 48]

Out of everything I've read, The Milestone Car probably has the most good information about what people
actually knew about the cars. It was written 35 years ago so much of it would have been compiled with
first hand knowledge. At that time TACA was only a couple years old so much has been learned since then.
Anyone with a real interest in the history of the Tucker should read The Milestone Car #11 - Spring 1975.

A couple of questions come to mind from Richards article. Is the body front he mentioned as having a #5
stamped on it the same as the one pictured below or was there another body front somewhere? He also
mentioned having the engine from #1042. What is the Serial Number of that engine and where is it now?
I know that Dave Cammack has an automatic transmission that supposedly came from #1042.

I seem to remember that someone had seen the data plate and that it was determined that Body Number 9
was on #1018. From the photos we have, it looks pretty clear that the front fenders ended up in Lot #684.
The photo of #1018 embedded in the tree shows substantial damage to the roof and rear passenger area.
The first hand account of from the accident mentions the car being ripped apart when it was pulled from
the tree. It looks like 3 of the doors survived along with the front clip, firewall, and part of the rear clip.
One could guess that there was pretty good damage to the passenger side of the rear clip.

So where did the firewall to #1018 go? It is clear from photos that the firewall in Lot #684 is not the firewall
from #1018. The front fenders certainly appear to be from it. They are the right color and the history from
McKinney to Lewis to Sheaffer to McKinley to Gilliland to Kughn to Lensing seems to verify that. (It's possible
it went from McKinney directly to Sheaffer and Lewis only had the rear).

At the time McKinley put this together he was in contact with people that had access to a lot of the parts.
He certainly knew Stan Gilliland through his ownership of the Auburn and work on the Cords. He lived only
150 miles from Ezra. This would have been prior to Stan buying Body #55 from Ezra. McKinley put this
together in the mid to late 60s and Ezra was alive until Oct of 1981 so McKinley could have bought Body #52
from Ezra and put it with the front end of #1018.

That leaves the firewall from #1018 with no windshield frame floating out there somewhere. Does anyone
know where the first picture below was taken? The other two were at Les Sheaffers.

1018c.JPG (42.23 KiB) Viewed 1742 times

1018a.JPG (24.46 KiB) Viewed 1743 times

1018b.JPG (25.92 KiB) Viewed 1739 times

[Tucker Fan 48]

Front clip of Lot #684. The rust patterns on the fenders and bumpers show these are from #1018.

3_Front_view.JPG (50.2 KiB) Viewed 1761 times

[Randy Earle]

It's a perfect match.

[Phantomrig]

It's a perfect match.

I agree

[Larry Clark]

In sorting through some stacks of notes, I recently ran across a copy I had kept of a post at another web site from some time ago. A poster said the following (the poster misspelled helicopter): "...Franklin helecopter engine in the rear... My Grandfather had six of the engines after the factory closed (he also owned #18 up to 1968)."

This is interesting on a couple of counts. I have never been able to get straight the owner sequence for #1018 (always have had trouble in my mind trying to decide what constitutes being 1018 to be counted as 1018). The more recent posts help. However, the would be grandfather still does not clearly fall out.

If this grandkid is correct then his grandfather apparently bought six of the engines when or soon after the company closed. The poster did not use his/her actual name and I was unable to get a return comment when I attempted to contact the poster. Given the posts on this thread, I am left to speculate that perhaps the grandfather is Wayne McKinley. If so, would McKinley have owned "1018" as late as 1968? Dick Kughn is commonly recognized with 1018 but he would not go back to the early 1950s for the six engines. It is, of course, possible that the grandkid is mistaken about 1018. Thoughts?

Larry

[plancor 792]

The 2nd. & 3rd. photos in Tucker Fan 48 reply above are photos I took while visiting Les Sheaffer several years back. At that time all he had was this front end, the Tin Goose ( it's in the background ) and Tucker 1008. As you can see the data plate has been removed but the body number 5 was stamped right next to where the data plate was to have been. I did not take a closeup of the body number and took Les's word that it was Tucker Serial Number 1018. Had the ride of my life when Les took me out on that narrow two lane road in Steelton, PA in 1008 and proceded to fly up and down that hilly countryside. We experienced many great times visiting and talking about the Tucker and later I went up to help him work on 1044.
Richard

[Tucker Fan 48]

Richard,

I'm pretty sure I know where the data plate is. I thought you had taken the first two pictures but wasn't sure.
Maybe someone can jump in if they know where that first photo was taken. I'd like to find out where and when
because it will give us an idea of when the front clip was removed. You mentioned #1044 at Sheaffers. Were
you there when engine #33539 was removed or did you see it at all? #33539 is the engine in the convertible
that now has zero miles on the motor. Which motor is in #1044 now? By the way, I apologize if I'm wearing you
out with all the questions. I do think we are getting very close to completely solving the mysteries of a couple
of the cars.

Larry,

You are probably correct about Wayne McKinley. From fordracers post on Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:00 pm (see below)
it appears Wayne had the parts until at least that time. I've never been able to pin a date on when Kughn began
collecting what became Lot #684. I was under the impression it was in the 80s sometime. Maybe Richard knows
the answer on that one too.

A thought on the motors. Could Wayne have bought 6 of the Willis Jones motors? At least 3 of them show up
later in Dave Cammacks cars. Wayne could have sold them to either Dave or Stan Gilliland. I wonder if it's
possible Wayne bought #33539 from Sheaffer, cleaned it up, and bolted it to one of the crates that once held
a Willis Jones motor. I guess Sheaffer could have owned them and sold some to Dave and some to Wayne. Hmmm....

It is my understanding that at one time, Mr. McKinley had enough parts to build a complete car.

My father met Mr. McKinley once. This back in the late 60's or early 70's. He stopped to see a couple of Glen Pray Cords that he had in O'Fallon, IL, and the subject turned to the Trucker that Mr. McKinley had driven to work that day. My father got to take a good look at the car. When he left that day, he was under the impression that Mr. McKinley had a complete second car that had not been assembled. Unfortunately, he did not get to see the parts/other car.

[plancor 792]

No idea who, when or where that first photo was taken. When I was at Les Sheaffer's and he had 1044, and it had Engine Serial Number 33574 installed. I do not know that Les swapped engines and I did not see any evidence of engine 33539 being there. At the time Kughn was accumulating his collection of Tucker parts I was no longer in contact with Gilliland as Dave had brought his cars to me to restore after Gilliland had quit working on 1022 and had left 1026 sitting in the field in back of his business. I did not have any contact with Kughn so have no idea as to what he had or collected.
Richard

[Tuckercar1018]

The hood that was sold appears to have never been on a car. It does not have any wear marks where the hinges would have been bolted on to it.

Oh, and Hotrod didn't buy it.......