Tucker '48 Automobile Bulletin Board

by **ken** » Fri May 25, 2001 11:53 pm

I TALKED TO THE GUY FACE TO FACE WHO CLAIMS TO HAVE THE ONLY TUCKER CONVERTIBLE.HE TOLD ME HE WOULD SELL IT AND ANOTHER TUCKER FOR $300,000. HE CLAIMED IT WOULD BE CAR NUMBER 57 AND WAS ONE OF 7 BODIES LEFT IN THE PLANT WHEN THE FEDS CLOSED DOWN THE PLANT. HE SAYS IT WAS UNFINISHED WHEN HE GOT IT.HE ALSO CLAIMS TO HAVE ANOTHER TUCKER ALTHOUGH HE DID NOT MENTION WHICH NUMBER IT WAS.I ASKED HIM TO SEE A PICTURE BUT HE SAID HE DID NOT HAVE ONE WITH HIM. I TOLD HIM TO BRING A PICTURE 
THE NEXT TIME I SEE HIM. 
ANYONE ELSE TALK TO THIS GUY???

by **plancor 792** » Mon May 28, 2001 1:50 am

Ken, 
I know the person who says he has the convertible. He also has Tucker Serial No 1043. He has come down considerably from the million he was advertising it for in Hemmings. He will not show it, not even pictures. I have information from Alex Tremulis who said no such convertible was built or even started at Tucker Corporation and Alex should know. You can contact me TuckerMch@aol.com 
Richard

by **jnbgoch** » Mon May 28, 2001 11:05 pm

Ken, 
 
I have also had communications with this person. I have been trying to get pictures since before Christmas. Good Luck. Richard will be able to fill you in on all of the gorry details as he did me. 
 
Brad Gochenour

by **jbleser** » Wed Jun 06, 2001 6:56 am

Hi Ken, 
 
The person that has this "Tucker Convertible" only lives approx 90 miles from me. I have tried several times to talk to this gentleman about his car for the last two years. I have tried by letter, e-mail, and telephone. All with NO luck. 
 
Although i probably cannot afford a Tucker automobile. I have a friend who is able to afford one and his curiosity is as wondering as mine. Even if this Tucker was/wasn't a convertible you would think you would want to at least show pictures of the car if you are selling it. I think the saying goes, "Seeing is believing". 
 
On the other side. Hey, it is his car and if he doesn't want to show it. So be it but i hope he doesn't expect to get $1,000,000, or $300,000 for it. 
 
Enough said, 
JBleser

by **DTemple** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 10:55 pm

This may add to the mystery of the Tucker convertible. The August 1976 issue of Motor Trend magazine featured an article about one of a kind and unusual cars that had disappeared. Many of them have been found by now. Here is the next to last paragraph of that article. "And was the Indiana Tucker really the last one left to find? Stan Gilliand thinks so: 'I've given up on wild goose chases, because there's always a Studebaker or a Hudson at the end.' But in 1973, Hemmings Motor News carried a classified advertisement for a Tucker convertible, built on a stock Tucker chassis with stock front sheet metal and custom work by Spohn of Germany. Gilliand wrote to the address listed in the ad, but he never received a reply and was never able to find out who had placed it. Look for a rear-engined ragtop with three headlights and three-foot-high tailfins."

by **maleangel212yahoocom** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 11:43 am

I saw a movie in high school about a guy who made these cars. I was fascinated by his cars. I was wondering if there are any out there left to be sold? And how much they would go for? Also, has anyone ever tried to copy the frame to make molds to produce more? 
----Thank you for having this web site it has been very informative.

by **chris** » Tue Jan 08, 2002 12:29 pm

there are only 51 tucker48s total all are for door family sedans and absolutly no rag tops un less he cut the top off and that wouldent look right

by **Adranus** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:52 am

Based on everything each post has said, my opinion on the Tucker convertible mystery is this: 
 
Somebody made reproduction or modified Studebaker parts. 
 
This person did some research and found a way to add some authenticity to these parts (i.e. serial numbers, tales of leftover parts). 
 
This person modified the overall design to make the fraud one of a kind, more rare, and thereby more precious and/or valuable, than the original. 
 
This person thought that they could quickly sell and pocket the money before the fraud was discovered. However, when he/she/it received a response much larger than anticipated, he/she/it retreated rather than face what most certainly would have been felony fraud charges.

by **1Robert** » Sat Dec 14, 2002 6:31 am

It would be my belief that the Tucker convertable is a fraud. I would agree with Adranus that the perpatrator was looking to sell it fast, and didn't anticipate the response it got, and is now stuck with it. According to Phil Egan's book "Design and Destiny", there were only 50 body stampings made for a pilot run of the production line. Eventually these were all assembled and are the ones that survive today. From reading it seems you may have had a surplus of engines (one post on this site someone was selling a long block Tucker engine) in Mr. Egan's book it says that engine production from Air Cooled motors caught up with the production of the cars by the time the court shut the Tucker operation down. From Charles Pearson's book it states there was one of the newly designed "air cooled" Tucker engines on a test stand, ready to go into a car when the factory was closed down. I would venture to say that you also had a surplus of other parts that may have been drifting around and that someone may have got a hold of enough to try to pull a fraud off by matching them up with parts from another kind of car. Out of curosity, anyone outthere happen to know when the equipment, supplies and stock from the Tucker plant? Was it auctioned off, or scrapped outright? I already know that we have some of the items left over from the "accessories program" out there. 
Respectfully, 
Robert W. Coller

by **1Robert** » Sat Dec 14, 2002 6:39 am

I forgot one other item. If the owner of the "convertable" does have car #1043, then the fraud is easier to attempt, since you have a template to fabricate parts and panels from.....add some possible surplus from the defunct Tucker corporation.... TADA!!! Tucker convertable. Just my opinion. 
Respectfully, 
Robert W. Collier

by **Blue Thunder 1957** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 9:58 am

Couple things here guys... 
 
First, I've seen the "convertible" up close and in person in Burlington. The car is frame #1055, with a genuine Tucker engine (I forget which serial number). It consists of a complete drivetrain and running gear, front fenders, cowl, and two doors. The doors are in fact lengthened so that it is a 2 door car and you can see where the welds were made. The convertible top is a frame only (which I believe is off a 1950's Buick). The chassis of the car is in fact constructed of a thicker gauge steel which could suggest that it was intended to support a convertible. 
 
On the other hand... Without a doubt, this car was NOT built by the Tucker Corp at the plant. If it was in fact a legitimate Tucker project, it was kept top secret and was commissioned to a custom body shop. The car was never finished and is still in process to this day. 
 
THAT BEING SAID - the real mystery lies in whether or not the Tucker Corp did in fact commission the building of the car and what was built by the body shop versus the current owner. 
 
When dealing with rare cars such as the Tucker, restoration often requires extensive fabrication. So since the car is technically not original either way, the legitimacy of the car comes down to DOCUMENTATION. As of yet, I have not seen any convincing documentation to support the owner's claims. 
 
We shall see... 
 
By they way, the owner no longer owns #1043. It was sold last May.

by **jfollis640** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 2:41 am

NOTE: This is a long response! 
 
The question of an authentic Tucker Convertible seems to pop up often and is considered by most as a myth. There has never been any credible evidence to suggest that a Tucker convertible originally built by the company exists now or that one was ever in development at Tucker Corporation. 
 
Actually there is quite a bit of evidence to the contrary. 
 
A couple of owners of Tuckers have said they planned to take their incomplete cars and create a tucker convertible. I am unaware that this has ever been pursued. In fact, one owner recently sold his Tucker “project car”, actually parts of #1018 & 1027 and surplus parts, at the RM Classics Novi, Michigan Auction. 
 
There have been several ads run in Hemmings over the last 4 or 5 years offering an "original Tucker convertible along with Tucker #1043". This pair of "cars" have been offered between $750,000 and 1.5 Million and those prices seemed to fluctuate often. 
 
I, as well as several TACA members and non members, made contact with the sellers only to learn they are actually "agents for the seller." I have recently reviewed photos of Tucker convertible car - or I should say project car - and it certainly looks the part. 
 
Here is what I do know as fact. Tucker #1043 does exist as well as body #57 and both were owned by the same person in Wisconsin. Tucker # 1043 was dismantled and in poor condition and was recently purchased and is under going restoration. The photos I viewed of the “convertible” could very well be body #57 being made into a convertible. 
 
Neither of these two cars could obtain the values they had been offered at in Hemmings unless they underwent extensive restoration. When I contacted the seller of the convertible on behalf of a prominent collector we received two faxes showing light sketches representing a convertible. No photos - no documentation - no offer to present the car. 
 
If I had something of this value - both historic and monetary - I would welcome the opportunity to have it verified by experts much like the ACD does with Duesenbergs. 
 
Myths regularly presented as fact- 
 
MYTH – Tucker designers were working on a convertible when the factory closed. 
 
FACT – Chief Stylist for Tucker Corporation, Alex Tremulis, when asked specifically about a convertible, stated for many years that a convertible would have been a future offering by Tucker. All Tucker Corporation efforts were geared at getting the Tucker ’48 into production rather than worrying about developing other body styles. 
 
From THE INDOMITABLE TIN GOOSE © 1960 page 99 Hard cover / page 90 Paperback- Tremulis stated that he had been working on body #57 when the plant shut down. "We were changing the rear window to a full wrap around and had already starting cutting the openings for the (1949 model year) re-style job." 
 
Further the Tucker Historical Collection and Library holds two letters dated around January 14, 1947 from M. W. Dulian – Sales Manager of Tucker Corporation. He is responding to questions from a customer asking if other models, such as convertibles, delivery vehicles or two-doors, would be offered. His response was, "for the immediate future only one body type will be produced – a four-door sedan." 
 
John Tucker Sr., son of Vera and Preston, also stated that they had cut the roof off of one body doing some more work on new models but this WAS not a convertible. 
 
MYTH – The convertible was an off-site project as Preston Tucker was making it for his wife Vera. Because it was off-site it never made the inventory and was under a tarp for about 30 years. 
 
FACT – It seems very strange that any-off site project would be left off any inventory as the March 1949 inventory does show 3 off site completed Tuckers and several engines on display around the country. Under the close scrutiny of the Federal investigators had it been found that Tucker had kept something hidden he certainly would have had faced additional charges. Preston’s wife, Vera Tucker, owned Tucker #1031 about 1960. Why would she or another family member not keep or complete such a pet project as HER convertible? Why would they have kept it hidden for years? 
 
MYTH – The unfinished convertible has its original "New Old Stock engine - never installed, still in the crate". 
 
FACT- The serial number provided as being the NOS Tucker engine (33539) has actually been documented as being from completed Tucker #1044. It was removed from #1044 by its restorer in mid 1970s – thus hardly a factory crated original. 
 
MYTH – Witnesses saw a Tucker convertible in the late 1940s – early 1950’s. 
 
FACT – Two young men in the early 1950s did customize a Buick convertible to look like a Tucker. However they never claimed it was a Tucker and it could NOT be easily confused as being a real Tucker. 
 
MYTH – “There were 58 tuckers made and not all are accounted for”. 
 
FACT – 51 completed cars were produced - none as a convertible. These were sold at a court supervised bankruptcy auction in 1950 along with several body panels, parts and engines. All original Tucker automobiles have been accounted for. 
 
So to sum it up, until such time as an factory original Tucker convertible is presented and can be authenticated my belief will remain that such and ORIGINAL does not exist. 
 
Jay A. Follis – Director 
Tucker Historical Collection and Library 
GILMORE CAR MUSEUM

by **1Robert** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 7:16 am

Mr. Thunder and Mr. Follis, 
Thank you so very much for the information you shared with us. I had speculated that whomever would have such a car, it probably was a combination of origenal and/or surplus parts, and some custom work. I appreciate your posts, and the light it sheds on the "Tucker Convertable". 
Respectfully, 
Robert W. Collier

by **Rekcut** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 9:42 pm

Thank you Jay for your research and clarification. The Tucker club is lucky to have you.

by **Hud1105** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:49 am

After the Richard Kughn car was sold in 2002 does anyone know what became of it? I was at the auction and plans for conv. were tapped to the side of the body. Please read the following article and review the pictures.

http://hudsonandrods.blogspot.com/

Judging from all the press and discussion around this topic, it may be hard to accept another opion.
Could this be the same car we are seeing on ebay?

Regards

Glenn Hickey

Tucker '48 Automobile Bulletin Board

TUCKER CONVERTIBLE

TUCKER CONVERTIBLE

Tucker Convertible

TUCKER CONVERTIBLE

Tucker Convertible???

Tucker convertible

Hey

convertable what?

convertible

Tucker convertable

Tucker Convertable (continued)

Re: Tucker Convertible (continued)

Will the real Tucker CONVERTIBLE please stand up?

Tucker Convertable

Tucker convertible

Re: TUCKER CONVERTIBLE

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