Tin Goose Question

[Prototype]

I hope this is not a repeat question, but here goes....Has the the Tin Goose ever been restored? If so, does anyone have any pictures? Does anyone have any specifics about the car, for instance; was it upgraded by Tucker or is it "as built" with the 589 and the Studebaker instruments? I tried to search the topic, but with no results regarding any restoration. Again, sorry if this is a repeat, but I find the way it was built intriguing, considering what they were trying to do in such a short amount of time. Phil Egan wrote in his book about Herman Ringling cutting with "a hacksaw into a section of the front fender to make a change and there were seven layers of built up sheet metal!" This cracks me up, because I have seen this before in "custom" cars and trucks that I have had the "pleasure" of restoring for customers as well as my own cars, to find this kind of fabrication. I guess that's why they're called "Lead Sled's"! I appreciate every single person on here, what a wealth of information and insight! Keep up the good work! ......Project Homer....I will laugh out loud at that one for a long time.......

[Tuckerfan1053]

Its at the Swigart Museum: http://www.tuckerclub.org/html/display_ ... n%20Goose&

[Prototype]

Thanks Tucker Fan- I did know it was at Swigert, but I was wondering if it has been restored at all and if there is pictures. Another thing I was wondering is about the wheel covers that are on it now. Does anyone know why they are on there and their signifigance? They are different than the other pictures I have seen and seem to detract from the cars' historical provenance.

[Tucker Fan 48]

The Tin Goose was restored beginning in 1971 by John Lemmo of Peninsula, OH. Lemmo found the Tin Goose
rusting behind Les Sheaffers barn in Pennsylvania in 1971 and bought the hulk. He spent 15 years restoring it,
traveling to swap meets to find parts, or having them made to order. Mr. Lemmo said when he bought the Tin
Goose ''It was maroon and rust, predominantly rust.'' Squirrels and mice even scampered around the inside.
Mr. Lemmo hauled 40 gallons of shells, nuts and debris out of the car.

Lemmo also owned Tucker #1020. At one time John Lemmo owned 32 classic cars and two airplanes, but over
time he sold most of them to help finance the restoration of his Tuckers. He finally sold them both in the 1990s.

Lemmo was the director of operations for the original Cleveland Browns, (now the Baltimore Ravens). He was 88
years old when he passed away on December 26th 2004.

[TuckerCar]

That is so odd that Preston Tucker, John Lemmo and Phil Egan all died on December 26th. And Egan died at 88 too.

[Prototype]

This is very interesting indeed! Does anyone else have any Tin Goose trivia? TuckerCar-I never really noticed the connection about their days of death, but that is strikingly odd...On another, but on topic note, about prototype vehicles....Many Manufacturer's then and now produced some interesting concept/prototype vehicles in their time. Depending on the function of these cars, be it a show car or an actual development mule, they are most often made from unconventional materials not suited for series production. Whether it be sheet steel or fiberglass, most show cars either did not run or had smaller engines just for loading and unloading from their trailers to the show floor (some were even powered by golf cart motors,i.e.. Cadillac Cien from a few years ago). The original Dodge Viper R/T Concept from 1988-89 had an iron V-10 truck engine (a Magnum V-8 cut off at the end and 2 cylinders welded on!)and was actually built from sheet steel by Metalcrafters in CA. and was fitted (along with early production versions) with Dodge Dakota front suspension components. As most of us know the Viper body is Fiberglass/ Composite construction. From what I understand the Tin Goose is a pretty faithful pre-production one-off of the pilot cars we know and love as the Tucker '48. Other than the switch to suicide doors and elimination of the fender script, to minor changes to the front bumper, there really is not much difference between the Prototype and production versions (with the exception of the mechanicals, I am referring to the cosmetics, of course). Does anyone know why the switch to suicide rear doors, considering their name (suicide), since it was supposedly marketed for its safety? Just wondering.......

[streamliner]

Here's some Tin Goose trivia: The dimensions of the left side of the car are significantly different than the dimensions on the right side of the car. I'll post my source for the information when I find it, but apparently Alex Tremulis, who was responsible for building the Tin Goose, could definitely see different proportions in the side views and preferred one side over the over by a long shot. Of course, his was much more than an untrained eye and he could detect even a trifle difference, but he's been quoted as saying that one side was much better at capturing the look that they were going for. I'm not sure if that means it's more or less like the production '48, but it would be interesting to see if anyone else has noticed the difference. Hopefully it retained these differences following the restoration, and wasn't "corrected" in an attempt to make the car perfect...

[Tucker Fan 48]

That is so odd that Preston Tucker, John Lemmo and Phil Egan all died on December 26th. And Egan died at 88 too.

There is also mystery man R. H. Mohrbacker who died the day before on 12/25/68. R. H. Mohrbacker of Minneapolis contacted Ezra Schlipf
looking for transmissions for a "couple of cars he bought" at the factory auction. No mention of a Mohrbacker was found in bankruptcy records.
No records exist for an R. H. Mohrbacker ever owning a Tucker yet he was trying to buy transmissions for a couple of them.

Richard Harry Mohrbacker (b. 11/5/03 d. 12/25/68) lived in the Minneapolis area until at least November of 1952 and had moved from
Minnesota to San Francisco by 1968.

[Prototype]

I am very pleased! This is exactly where I was hoping this would go! With any and everyone sharing their knowledge about this seemingly mysterious creation, this could very well turn into a hot bed of Tin Goose info. In regards to the left and right sides of the car being of different dimensions, I am not surprised at that at all, it's one thing to sculpt and shape an automobile design, but to do so and duplicate it from one side to the other in such a short time frame, as they did, details get "lost in translation", especially when you are dealing with an unforgiving substance such as steel. Companies such as Metalcrafter's and Marcel's, who build incredible one-off car bodies from scratch use cold rolled steel, which is easily manipulated into just about any shape imaginable. The sheet steel available on the open market about the time the Tin Goose was being constructed was hot rolled steel, called iron sheet, it was not only difficult to work with, brittle, and lacked malleability needed to "work" it into the shape desired, but of a poor quality that contained very little carbon, owing to it's brittleness. This low carbon steel probably contributed to the rusty state of the Tin Goose when found, since dipping of raw car bodies was not utilized until Fisher Body Co. began the process in the 1950's, augmenting the hand applied "cavity wax", that could not be applied to all areas that were hidden (preventing rust on a hurried project was the least of their worries). In the life photos, you will notice that the unfinished bodies on the welding line have a shine to them, this is a light oil (castor or mineral) used in the stamping process, but you can see the rust that had already formed on some of the shells before finishing. I'm sure the various companies who supplied Tucker with the stampings to make the 58 bodies used the cold rolled variety because the kirksite material used for the dies is very soft and can only be used for a short time before they wear out and must be discarded. Kirksite is still used today, but only for limited pilot runs. Tool and die making is not what it is today, they had to be made by hand, there were no CNC milling machines in the 1940's! It was common to use 16 or 18 ga. steel on cars back then, even 8 ga. (1/8 plate) was used for bracing, rocker sills and floor pans, but now most cars are made of higher tensile 22 ga. galvanized "the new steel" that is supposedly stronger than what was used even 25 years ago. I know a little off topic, but I just wanted to share! Keep that wonderful trivia and information coming! Great Work!

[plancor 792]

I have come across the name R. H. Mohrbacker in the past but at this time cannot find anything on him. Should I come across anything I will pass it on.
Richard

[Tommy]

I wonder if Mr.Mohrbacker has some connection to the Tuckers owned by Mr.Bob Turner of Hopkins,MN. One of those was a later number, #1040 I think, that may have needed a transmission when it left the factory.

That was very interesting information about prototypes. Now I wonder how many layers of sheet metal are on those Tin Goose fenders.

[Tucker Fan 48]

R. H. Mohrbacker (Richard Harry Mohrbacker) was probably tied together with Bob Turner, Bill Lund or both.
Turner had #1028, #1032, & #1040. Bill Lund had #1032 which he sold to Bill Harrah and Lund was thought to
own one other Tucker.

A couple of odd things on this. Ezra Schlipf supposedly owned #1032. Did he sell it to Bob Turner? If so, then
why would Mohrbacker be back asking Schlipf about transmissions? Wouldn't Turner have just asked himself?
Bob Turner scrapped a Cord Beverly to get a transmission for one of his Tuckers. All three of these Turner
cars have fuzzy early ownership.

Bill Lund and his friend Louis Seekon were supposed to have been at the auction. Seekon was a big Packard
collector. They could have been there with James Anderson, the owner of Joy Brothers Packard (owner of #1034),
Richard Mohrbacker, and Bob Turner. They all were from the same area and may have known each other. Just
don't know where R. H. Mohrbacker fits in.

As for the Tin Goose, Alex Termulis said in an interview that the Tin Goose had over 500 pounds of lead in it.

[Prototype]

500 pounds of lead! Not a surprise at all! This has become a wealth of information about the most important Tucker in history! Keep it coming! Prototypes and show cars are mostly considered tools for marketing as well as way for OEM's to show their forward thinking. It figures that about 60% of what you see on a show/concept car will actually make it to production, the rest if well, is for show. A few famous and infamous concepts have slipped through the cracks when they are either kept by the manufacturer (like GM's Heritage Collection) or shown the door to the crusher. The 1955 Lincoln Futura was built by Ghia in Italy for Ford at a cost of $250,000.00. After only a year on the curcuit and 2 repaints (1 for a movie) it was sold to George Barris for $1! It now fights grime in Barris' shop, rarely driven. Then there is the Buick Y-Job, still sitting in the GM collection, unrestored and looking like it was built yesterday! Other GM concept/prototypes were given to executives to drive and many were sent back to the styling studio for upgrades either for safety reasons, cosmetic enhancements or creature comfort modifications, many racking up 200,000 miles in their lifetimes. I remember sitting in the 1996 Viper GTS coupe prototype and just above the gauges, out of sight from any others' view was a placard that read: WARNING: Prototype Wheels installed-Vehicle NOT TO EXCEED 5 MPH! Funny, A go fast, kick ass looking car and you could not drive faster than Grandma could go with her walker!

[Tuckeroo]

A few things that I think are noteworthy on this topic:
The Tin Goose as seen in some factory publicity photos has a "Tucker" script on its right (passenger side) front fender. While today the Tin Goose carries the script on both front fenders, in 1947 this script may only have been on the right fender, and briefly at that (it was removed by the June 19 premiere). The script may have even come off of the Lippincott clay model. Also the hubcaps which are flat and say "Tucker" across them are unique to that stage of the Tin Goose's development as well. While today the Tin Goose has hubcaps resembling those, again they were changed by the time of the June 19 premiere. The fender skirt(s?) were removed and the wooden front bumper was replaced with a metal one for the premiere. This bumper is unique to the Tin Goose, and it wasn't until around the time Tucker: The Man and His Dream was in production that Mr. Lemmo acquired the correct (presumably original) bumper. Up until that point in its restoration it was wearing a "production" Tucker bumper that left a gap. The alteration of the bumper design in pre-production created a bumper that didn't extend far enough forward. Cars 1002+ have a thin, body-colored strip of metal sandwiched between the front bumper and the fenders to bridge the gap when they realized the needed to bring it forward about another inch. The Tin Goose doesn't have this because of its different bumper, and lacking the metal strip, 1001s cyclops eye protrudes beyond the contact point of the newer bumper design. The 589 engine and Studebaker dashboard were in the Tin Goose at the premiere, but both of these would be replaced under factory auspices before the company demise and the it would retain a Tucker dash and 335 engine from then on. I've seen photographs of at least 3 different steering wheels used on the Tin Goose. In addition to all four doors being hinged forward, the Tin Goose also lacks front turn signals, has a smaller decklid opening, different tail light lenses, and window operating mechanisms deemed unsafe as they raised to rapidly.

[Prototype]

From what I understand, the Tin Goose now has a reproduction of its orignal rear bumper that was cast from solid aluminum. The presumably "original" bumper from which this copy was made, sold on ebay some time ago for around $2250. Though I'm not sure what the copy is made of, maybe somebody knows??