Tucker Torpedo is being built finally

[tuckernut]

IDA Automotive in NJ have built the Tucker 48 several times from Scratch. Now they are building the orginal concept car the Tucker Torpedo. The real tucker design that Tucker intended to build before changes were made and the Tucker we all know today as being 50 cars made came to life. See the video on UTube search IDA Tucker Torpedo or see the link here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CygxxHbi8rY

[TuckerCar]

Well, if anyone can do it, it would be IDA. I am usually skeptical about these things but I look forward to seeing it complete.

[Tuckerfan1053]

There is one already.



Admittedly, its not one built by IDA. Personally, I'd like to see IDA do Tremulis' Talisman design more than I would the Torpedo.

[Tatra Man]

There is one already.

Tuckerfan 1053,

You know full well that the "Torpedo" you've posted a photo of looks NOTHING like the original design. It emulates some of its features, but it's no where close to the actual design. So, I hope you were joking when you said one was already built. If not, then it's time to see the eye doctor.

[Tuckerfan1053]

Its owned and was commissoned by a member of the Tucker family to show what a Tucker Torpedo would have looked like were it to have actually have been built, so I fail to see how it could not be considered to be a Torpedo.

IDA's will no doubt look a lot better, but even they are not going to be able to fully realize Lawson's design. Remember, Lawson had the windows in the door wrapping around into the roof, which means that there's no way one can roll them down, which makes the car useless if you want to go to the drive-thru at McDonald's or have to stop at a tollbooth. Not to mention the police tend to prefer you to roll your window down when they stop you, rather than opening your door.

[Tatra Man]

Its owned and was commissoned by a member of the Tucker family to show what a Tucker Torpedo would have looked like were it to have actually have been built, so I fail to see how it could not be considered to be a Torpedo.

IDA's will no doubt look a lot better, but even they are not going to be able to fully realize Lawson's design. Remember, Lawson had the windows in the door wrapping around into the roof, which means that there's no way one can roll them down, which makes the car useless if you want to go to the drive-thru at McDonald's or have to stop at a tollbooth. Not to mention the police tend to prefer you to roll your window down when they stop you, rather than opening your door.

Tuckerfan 1053,

You are more than welcome to consider that modified Buick Riviera a "Torpedo" if you want based on the technicality that the Tucker family commissioned it. However, it looks absolutely nothing like the Lawson design. This is a fact you cannot dispute in any manner.

I'm not sure what you have against the Lawson design, but you obviously have something against it because whenever I mention it you insult it. Just for your information, I would like to point out that Preston Tucker did not consider the Lawson design to be impractical at all. Alex Tremulis testified at the SEC Criminal Trial that the engineering department at the Tucker Corp. had a full-size rendering of the Lawson design on the drafting board as they were preparing it for production!!!! So, every time you take a stab at the Lawson design, you are also taking a direct stab at Preston Tucker himself. Let us also not forget that Preston Tucker thought the fluid drive and 589 engine were also fantastic ideas. So, what does this indicate about our visionary hero?!?!?

Also, I know of no living person who has any idea of how George Lawson planned to realize the design. Just because you and I don't know what Lawson had in mind for the design doesn't mean that Lawson didn't have a solution to these perceived problem. About the glass that couldn't roll down, I do have a pretty good idea of how that was to be accomplished. The original Lawson design model indicates that the glass was to be hinged at the top and pop-out at the bottom. I know of at least one car that was built in just this manner. It's the 1938 Hispano-Suiza "Xenia" coupe built for Andre Dubonnet and designed by Jean Andreau. It is considered one of the most beautiful cars ever built, and its windows don't roll down. And it's worth many times more than any Tucker (just in case you wondered). Here's a link to some photos of the Xenia: http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z921 ... Xenia.aspx

[Tuckerfan1053]

Calm down, man! I am not insulting Lawson or Tucker. In fact, I can't even imagine how you get that impression from anything I've posted. Nor does it matter what the Hispano-Suiza "Xenia" used for its windows or how much it sells for, since it was built a decade before the first Tuckers rolled off the line, and was never intended to be a mass production car. Upward hinged windows wouldn't be much of an improvement, in my opinion, either, as there'd be issues of the glass hitting something as it swung out, and you wouldn't be able to have the windows open while driving the car (AC or not, there are times when you want to have the windows open). Also, as "car culture" caught fire in the 1950s, with drive-ins, etc., a Tucker with upward swinging windows would probably had difficulties with drive-in restaurants and movie theaters, since those things would all be designed to accommidate the vast majority of cars which would not have those windows. (I think that its unlikely that the design would have been imitated rapidly enough by other car makers, if it at all, for it to be considered by the folks who designed the window trays, and window speakers needed by those things.)

Nor have I neglected to point out the influence Lawson's design appeared to have on other car makers of the time, as I pointed out in one thread that Chrysler's Le Prix design appeared to be Lawson's design crossed with a Chrysler Airflow. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=448

As for the Tucker built Torpedo, I agree that's its not a pretty car and if you'll notice, I stated that IDA would do a better job. Until IDA gets theirs built, however, it is the only Tucker Torpedo around. I have no idea why the car varies from Lawson's design in the manner it does. It might have been a matter of cost, or some other reason.

I don't know why Tucker decided to go with a different design for his car, but its possible that he'd heard about (or even seen) the TASCO concept, which has many similarities to Lawson's design, in my opinion, and wanted to have his car stand out more. The TASCO can be seen here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilovecoffe ... 314456947/

[Tatra Man]

As for the Tucker built Torpedo, I agree that's its not a pretty car and if you'll notice, I stated that IDA would do a better job. Until IDA gets theirs built, however, it is the only Tucker Torpedo around. I have no idea why the car varies from Lawson's design in the manner it does. It might have been a matter of cost, or some other reason.

I don't know why Tucker decided to go with a different design for his car, but its possible that he'd heard about (or even seen) the TASCO concept, which has many similarities to Lawson's design, in my opinion, and wanted to have his car stand out more. The TASCO can be seen here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilovecoffe ... 314456947/

The problem with the Tucker-family built car is that it is built onto a Buick Riviera. Because of this fact, none of the proportions had any chance of being representative of the Lawson design. There was no chance of having a similar wheelbase, overall dimensions, windshield rake, etc, because they were stuck with what Buick game them. On the other hand, IDA Automotive is doing the right thing. They are basically starting from scratch, and their work is based on a scan of the original 1/4 scale Lawson Torpedo design model. Thus, they know what proportions Lawson had in mind. And I think their plan is to stay fairly true to the original Lawson proportions. I can't wait to see the results.

There are some possible reasons why Preston Tucker didn't build the Lawson design. In exchange for creating the Torpedo design, Preston Tucker offered Lawson 5% of the Tucker Corporation stocks once the Corporation was formed. Lawson worked on the design for 2 years before the Tucker Corp was even formed. As soon as the Corporation was formed, Lawson was named the Chief Stylist of the Tucker Corp. He stayed there another six months, but became quite leery of Preston Tucker and decided to resign. Because Lawson had agreed to work for 5% of the Tucker Corporation stock, he had basically worked for 2.5 years on the Torpedo design without pay. So, he did the only thing he could. He patented the design in his own name and then filed a suit against Tucker over the design. Preston Tucker did settle with Lawson for something like $10,000, and part of the deal was that the Lawson patent became Preston Tucker's. But by the time this was settled (and perhaps a result of Lawson owning the patent to that design), Tremulis was hired to change the design. After three months, Tremulis' contract was not renewed and the Lippincott team was brought in to finish the design - which they did. Tremulis was hired back at a later date.

I'm glad you brought up the TASCO. I've done some research on that car, and it was designed and built about a year after Preston Tucker started promoting the Lawson Torpedo design. In his book Rolling Sculpture, Gordon Buehrig credits the inspiration for the TASCO elsewhere, but I am convinced that the TASCO was strictly inspired by the Lawson Torpedo.

[Tuckerfan1053]

Well, that answers that about the TASCO. Did Buehrig say what, and how much, he was drinking when he came up with the idea for the TASCO? IMHO, its one seriously ugly vehicle, and I cannot fathom what made Buehrig (who has designed some of the most beautiful cars to ever grace the road) to come up with such a design, unless he'd been drinking heavily. Parts of the design are quite nice, but as a whole, it just doesn't work for me.

[tuckernut]

The Ida's are true fans of the Tuckers and truly respect all of Tucker's car designs. It seems they work really hard to follow the original plans. This Torpedo will have as many of the original features as possible but all they have to go on is a four foot clay model and a brochure. I'm sure they will have to take a couple of liberties as they have no real blueprint to go by.

How about the Youtube video link I posted? Anybody have any comments?

[John K.]

The first time I saw the Tasco at Auburn in 1992 (at the ACD Museum), I couldn't believe it. Hadn't I seen that design somewhere before? Then I remembered the magazine cover illustration of the proposed Tucker Torpedo, and it hit me. This is what the original design was meant to look like! It bears striking similarities to the illustration, in my opinion. It also reminds me of a small plane with the wings removed!

[Tatra Man]

Well, that answers that about the TASCO. Did Buehrig say what, and how much, he was drinking when he came up with the idea for the TASCO? IMHO, its one seriously ugly vehicle, and I cannot fathom what made Buehrig (who has designed some of the most beautiful cars to ever grace the road) to come up with such a design, unless he'd been drinking heavily. Parts of the design are quite nice, but as a whole, it just doesn't work for me.

I finally located my copy of Buehrig's Rolling Sculpture, and here's what he says about the Tasco. "Someone once said, 'Show me a man who never made a mistake, and I'll show you a man who never did anything'. When I think of the Tasco I repeat this to myself. It helps a little. The Tasco, you might say, was my personal Edsel. It was not a very significant automobile in the broad scope of history, and since only one prototype was built it would seem that after a quarter century the car would be forgotten. But it still exists to haunt me." Buehrig further mentions that the design of the car started in 1948, and was inspired by a design by Claire Hodgman published in the English magazine, Motor. FYI: The earliest article I have that features the Lawson Torpedo design renderings is dated Dec. 16, 1945. The earliest I know of the Lawson Torpedo model being published is October 3, 1946. Both dates are well-before 1948, when Buehrig claims he began his design.

If anyone can locate the Motor magazine that features Claire Hodgman's work, I would be very interested in seeing it.

Buehrig designed some amazingly beautiful cars, but he also designed some amazingly ugly ones. He really didn't do much after the 1930s, but the few hits he had were really great.

[Tatra Man]

The first time I saw the Tasco at Auburn in 1992 (at the ACD Museum), I couldn't believe it. Hadn't I seen that design somewhere before? Then I remembered the magazine cover illustration of the proposed Tucker Torpedo, and it hit me. This is what the original design was meant to look like! It bears striking similarities to the illustration, in my opinion. It also reminds me of a small plane with the wings removed!

I agree that the Tasco is quite similar in feeling to the Lawson Torpedo, but the execution of the design is quite different. To say that the Tasco and Lawson Torpedo look alike is to say that Hillary Clinton and Claudia Schiffer look the same because they both have blond hair and breasts.

Once IDA is finished building the Lawson Torpedo, I think it would be really great to put it side-by-side with the Tasco and make a visual comparison.

[Tatra Man]

The Ida's are true fans of the Tuckers and truly respect all of Tucker's car designs. It seems they work really hard to follow the original plans. This Torpedo will have as many of the original features as possible but all they have to go on is a four foot clay model and a brochure. I'm sure they will have to take a couple of liberties as they have no real blueprint to go by.

How about the Youtube video link I posted? Anybody have any comments?

It's really fantastic that the Ida's are doing everything possible to make their car accurate to the original Lawson design. I do agree that they will be forced to take some liberties, but I'm confident that the results will be something that George Lawson and Preston Tucker would be proud of. Once built, I'm really going to look forward to a side-by-side comparing of the Lawson Torpedo and the Lippincott/Tremulis/Lawson "production" Tucker '48.

About the video... I think it's very nicely done. The only "complaint" I would have is that a lot of the artwork shown throughout the video was done by Alex Tremulis rather than George Lawson. And as the basic crux of the video is about how the Ida's are building the Lawson Torpedo, the Tremulis artwork doesn't really fit. However, I doubt many people would know the difference between Lawson's and Tremulis' work. I hope that doesn't sound too overly critical.

My favorite part of the video is when Rob Ida states that the Lawson Torpedo was the car his grandfather really wanted. And that he is certain that it was the design that Preston Tucker also really wanted. That thought that never occurred to me before, and after thinking about it a while I think Rob is absolutely right.

[Tuckeroo]

Tatra Man: "My favorite part of the video is when Rob Ida states that the Lawson Torpedo was the car his grandfather really wanted. And that he is certain that it was the design that Preston Tucker also really wanted. That thought that never occurred to me before, and after thinking about it a while I think Rob is absolutely right."

Tough to say, I think. My feeling on the Tucker, as with most cars before and after, is that no one person can be given total credit for the design that became the final car. Tremulis built on the Lawson design, and the Lippincott team built on Tremulis'. The side view of the Tucker, especially it's "folded wing" fenders, I believe came from Tremulis, is distinguished from the Lawson design, and appears on the car that was ultimately built. The Tremulis side view was established and approved when the Lippincott team showed up, though at that time the Lawson front and to some extend the Lawson rear was still very evident. The Lippincott team used Tremulis' side-view but altered the front and rear, including the steer-horn front bumper. Budd Steinhibler revealed in his 1999 presentation as much: that on the car ultimately produced, the side view was Tremulis, the front and rear Lippincott. Also that while that didn't go straight from drawing to metal per se, the metal body was being shaped at the same time as the clay models. Alterations were being made to the metal body based on sketches taken of the model, as Tucker approved a change in clay, the same was done in metal, sometimes based solely on sketches from the model - not exactly "sketch to metal" but "sketch to clay, back to sketch, to metal."

At any rate, my doubt about the original design being the one that "Preston Tucker also really wanted" stems from the fact that with all of these different design elements at his disposal for him to pick and choose from, the ones he chose to be sculpted (and resculpted) into metal are the ones we see in the final product. Though he may have had to compromise on technical features, I don't believe he compromised on styling, or felt that he had to.