Tucker # 1057

[john]

Tuckeroo,
You posted thoughts regarding what you felt a body was, we basicly agreed with your thoughts in our writing above.
You ended the body question with, "built on a chassis?" this is the same basic question we posed in ending our post above, " were the bodies built on the chassis as they were going down the assembly line?

Tuckeroo, you brought up Ezra's cars, that is a subject that generates a whole new topic that should have a topic post for itself.
Much really needs to be discussed in the forums by all of what, calling them bodies or frames, were there and who documented & verified what was there. One point that could be in the "new" forum post is written just below here.
Please though, as I like TaterTots!, lets start a new topic post on Ezra for History sake, OK?
Many stories lay, or should I say, seem to be literally burried there!

Tuckeroo, you stated that "records show", "body 57 was being worked on by Alex in styling and had a wrap around back glass installed and modifications to the front fenders, one would fully assume that it was a car, not just a body?
Again, back to the question you basicly asked and we asked?

If this car or body was at Ezra's, wouldn't it have stuck out like a sore thumb and been picked up instantly as a special protype Tucker? Just rationally thinking out loud.
Where might that car be and has any of the special parts ever surfaced?

Richard, to our best knowledge, a question was not asked of when the plant closed down, the basic question asked in part by Tuckeroo and us was, did the frames get assembled with bodies going down the assembly line?

Richard, in the forum post above, you brought forth " it is my opinion that when a body becomes an automobile is when it is assigned a serial number & not a body number.

The FBI, the NCIC, the State Police, the Courts and the Sheriffs Departments would most definetly disagree with you.
They recognize only stamped serial numbers when doing authentification or Police Officer Identification in older vehicles and some of the newer cars, depending upon circumstance.

A screwed on tag is not considered, just looked at, it is in fact, the stamped serial number they fully acknowledge.
To further this, most cars built since the middle 70's have paper/plastic tags for quick ID purposes, if you try and remove one, it will automatically reveal itself as VOID across itself.


Richard and Tuckeroo, the issue of Tucker serial numbers and body and frame numbers being sometimes the same or different is actually easily explained as it has happened before in other cars as well.

Nowdays, a body number is just that, a prefix or sequence or whatever ID is placed describing a 2 door, 4door, roadster, convertible etc, nothing about it coincides with the serial number but some do place a digit in the serial number that draws it to the body number.

Back in the day, 1965-1967 Shelbys suffered such the same problem which led to the Club having Police inquiries about the 65-67 Shelbys serial numbers.
There were other car lines also that were inflicted with the same problem.

Quite easy to explain actually in theory as the above Shelbys were explained:
Lets say a Tucker was running down the assembly line and a problem with the car pops up.

It is drawn from the line and therefore falls out of sequence.

When the problem is fixed, it is shipped down the assembly line and assigned a final serial number on the tag affixed to that particular Tucker then.
That should explain why some have numbers that match and others do not.

Shelbys; they were brought in by semi's in batches from FOMOCO and dropped to the Shelby American plant and unloaded where many other Shelbys were setting.
Workers would grab whatever car they found easiest to bring in and transform into a Shelby.

Problem, when the cars were completed after assembly and ready for a serial number riveted tag, there was no sequence whatsoever as to serial number sequence and Shelby number sequence on the Special Shelby Tag riveted to the engine bay apron.

Same as the Tucker in essence., Tucker serial number 8 and stamped number 23, Tucker serial number 1026 and stamped number 1024.
We agree with what you ascertained in your post above Tuckeroo.

Good Point though, 65-67 Shelby built Shelby's, not 68 thru 70 Shelbys, are basicly Fraud proof as only SAAC has the Ford stamped serial numbers and know what Shelby number was assigned to that particular Shelby. Confusing, no not really, give SAAC a call.

Tuckeroo and Richard, you centered in on engines, transmissions and numerous Tuckers with Ezra thrown in, as I like TaterTots!, possibly a special Topic area might be good so all can be condensed for easy reading and posts on these valid topics?
I like TaterTots!?

Richard, we agree with your post above,
"why do people always try and read into a message something that is not in the message.
No disrespect implied or intended Richard.
The I like TaterTots! we mentioned above.

"""""Back to the actual forum post questions,"""""""
Was a frame sent down the line and was the body assembled on it as it went down the assembly line?

The first question, in part, seems to have been answered, 1057 was a special car, body or whatever one would want to term it, guess it is per the answer to the above question.

We do look forward in posting/replying and do truly enjoy the Club.
JOHN

[plancor 792]

This will be my last reply to this post. I don't give a dang how other companies may have numbered their automobiles, All I am attempting to do is pass on what I know about Tucker Corporation. If you want to nick pick on it go ahead and no reply will be forth coming from me. The bodies were not on a production line. They were in a body shop and did not yet have a frame attatched.
Alex was working on body 57 and they did not put a glass into that modified rear window. I had very little contact with Ezra Schlipf and at times I am not sure that even he knew exactly what he had. I have no idea as to what happened to that body that Alex was working on and fenders were not on that body. In reality, there was no assembly line as would be needed to keep cars moving at a certain speed down the line. All the while they were putting cars together they were also refurbishing many of the cars that had been out on the road. putting in new engines, transmissions and interiors. Those cars saw thousands of miles and were returned to the plant for updates. As an example the first 34 cars had Y-1 transmissions installed. Records show that Tucker Serial Number 1023, Body Number 1008 had at least 2 Y-1 transmissions installed. By the way Tucker Serial Number 1026 does have 26 stamped on both rear fenders, no matter what may be stamped elsewhere. There are two Tucker's stamped body number 5. How about that?
I really don't care that the FBI or any one else would disagree with me as to when a partially assembled body becomes an automobile. if you may recall many years ago a car was registered by engine number.
So this is all I am going to say on this subject. I have over the years spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars attempting to get all the information I could gather from those who worked at the plant. I have a long list of those I was in contact with from Dee Dee Jordan, to Alex Tremulis, Eddie Offutt, Dan Leabu, Joe Bruzas, Warren Rice, David Doman, Jorge C. Altamirano, Nick Jenin and Ezra Schlipf to name a few. After the auction Ezra Schipf had Tuckers, Serial Numbers, 1002, 1012, 1026, 1027, 1048 and 1050. He also had 4 extra engines and the unfinished bodies. He never told me how many unfinished bodies he had.
The End.
Richard

[john]

Richard,
We are truly sorry if you felt we were nick picking as you referred to it.
It was the only way we could address, find and gain information needed about Tucker body and frame number 57, inner workings of the Tucker plant assembly line and many other details.

Your vast knowledge as a Tucker Car Historian is truly appreciated and your past and present posts have highly supplemented and substantiated our conclusions as needed pieces of the puzzle.

The distinction of a Tuckers body being affixed to its frame after being painted provided details of much needed information.

Your knowledge you passed on regarding two number 5 tucker bodies greatly assisted with another piece of the puzzle , we do assume though that the chassis was stamped #5 ?
We are not saying that there are two Tucker Bodies and frames that have serial number 57 stamped on them.

Your knowledge passed on about Alex working on number 57 in the special development area provided another important piece.

The details provided by you & Jay in prior posts, regarding John Tucker Seniors comments provided another piece.

We have gathered many pieces for the puzzle that we believe will finally bring the mythical number 57 to conclusion

We are missing a few pieces of the puzzle that we requested in our posts and replies though; they should not hinder your decisions one way or the other as Club authorities.

We have forwarded, by way of the Clubs messaging mail, request for you or Jay to contact us, our phone numbers are in the e-mail’s we sent and the messages left on a phone answering machine at the Museum.

We truly do not desire to post our findings and conclusions regarding Tucker number 57 until we know whether the both of you agree or disagree as the Club’s authorities.

Respectfully submitted,
John

[tin goose]

stamp on the hood


stamp on the firewall

... I took these pictures just over a week ago

[john]

We are curious, what are the pictures displaying 57supposed to represent?

This serial number is from one of the bodies sold at auction in 1950 that ended up at Erza's.

There are two different documented reports that it was verified at Ezra's besides the paperwork from the auction displaying it was sold as such.

Is there a different story which might be told?
We did untangle this mess after 100's of hours in research, we do have the facts on what 57 is,
John